V 12 version?

21656 Views 18 Replies 13 Participants Last post by NY3UVL714, Jun 19, 2008

logansowner

Discussion Starter · Mar 11, 2003

Just wondering if you thing that GM will offer a XV-12 version of the XLR to compete with MB's new SL600? I believe that GM's codes said they were working on 3 V-12 engines over the next couple years, one of course will go to the Escalade, presummably one will go to the Cein, so do you think the third will go to the XLR?:cheers

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

Jinx

· #2 · Mar 12, 2003

I don't think GM knows the answer to this question. I think they'll wait to see how the Northstar XLR does, and then conduct some research on whether anybody beyond the Hip-Hop/Hoops world would go for the V12.

Ironically, I think the availability of a V12 is essential to selling the V8. Without the halo car, the XLR is a more-expensive Lexus SC, not a less-expensive Mercedes SL.

Another factor is whether GM will make more money dropping V12s into XLRs or into Escalades. I don't think anyone will debate that GM's first inclination is to build whatever makes the highest short-term profit. No doubt in today's market they'll sell every Escalade V12 they can assemble. Though it seems criminal to put such a sophisticated engine in a live axle truck.

.Jinx

TroubleT

· #3 · Apr 3, 2003

V-12 I Doubt It

Considering the uncertainty of oil futures in the world, I doubt GM will make a V12 version of anything. It's nice to dream guys but lets get real, there needs to be more focus on producing fuel efficiency that wasting it on a ungodly sized V-12 which serves no other purpose than to show your neighbors how much money you have.:banghead

Jinx

· #4 · Apr 4, 2003 (Edited)

Oil future uncertain? Pish-posh. The wealthy (and the image-conscious near-wealthy) care nothing for the distant future of oil or the short-term price fluctuations. The GM V12 is already on the way, destined for the Escalade's engine bay.

.Jinx
P.S. America doesn't give a damn about fuel efficiency. Automakers build what customers buy or they go out of business.

FantaC42

· #5 · Apr 4, 2003

I really doubt GM will invest in a V12 in such a low volume car. Now a supercharger/Blower thats in the works for sure!

bowtiebandit

· #6 · Apr 4, 2003

Jinx said:
Oil future uncertain? Pish-posh. The wealthy (and the image-conscious near-wealthy) care nothing for the distant future of oil or the short-term price fluctuations. The GM V12 is already on the way, destined for the Escalade's engine bay.

.Jinx
P.S. America doesn't give a damn about fuel efficiency. Automakers build what customers buy or they go out of business.

Hate to differ with you on this bit EPA regulations that I just read about mandate that all SUV's must get an average of 23 and some change mpg buy 2007. Now my Tahoe is lucky if it gets 16 around town :cry

logansowner

Discussion Starter · #7 · Apr 5, 2003

Re: V-12 I Doubt It

TroubleT said:
Considering the uncertainty of oil futures in the world, I doubt GM will make a V12 version of anything. It's nice to dream guys but lets get real, there needs to be more focus on producing fuel efficiency that wasting it on a ungodly sized V-12 which serves no other purpose than to show your neighbors how much money you have.:banghead

We allready know GM is working on a V-12, infact the RPO codes tell us that there will, within the three years the RPO codes show for be infact 3 versions of the V-12:smash And also, a few V-12's arent going to do much to GM's overall fuel milage average:cheers One more thing, if you can afford a $100,000 plus car, do you really care about the fuel efficency?

FantaC42

· #8 · Apr 6, 2003

If there is a V12 in Cadillac's future its not in XLRs future. Cadillac is working on a MayBach type sedan but its not yet approved. (Don't Hold Your breath folks)

OlGeezer

· #9 · Apr 6, 2003

XLR - V12

Hate to burst your bubble, but to quote John Z, fromthe other board, there just isn't room in the XLR for the V-12. It will probably go into the "Sixteen" as a base engine; with the V-16 as the premium drivetrain.

Geezer

logansowner

Discussion Starter · #10 · Apr 15, 2003

Re: XLR - V12

OlGeezer said:
Hate to burst your bubble, but to quote John Z, fromthe other board, there just isn't room in the XLR for the V-12. It will probably go into the "Sixteen" as a base engine; with the V-16 as the premium drivetrain.

Geezer

Wouldn't burst my bubble to know GM was going to use the V16:smash

86vette

· #11 · Apr 23, 2003

what about the cien? has that been totally x-ed yet. i thought that had a v-12 engine and there was the possibility of producing that car.

Needaxlr23

· #12 · May 1, 2003

There is no way gm will put a v12 in the xlr i think what they wanted to project a car that had equal if not better looks than the "sl" but at a chaeaper price and adding a v12 to the lineup will make there price go i think into the 100 thousands and i dont think that is their plan. The sl600 will not come out until 2004 which will give time for cadillac/gm to see how a v12 sells on a sl600 and if it does sell well maybe there will be a sxlr with a v12 under the hood who knows ?:thumbs

Scissors

· #13 · May 9, 2003

For those of you worried about the future of oil, you may wish to read up on modern Thermal Depolymerization which will turn organic trash into crude oil and natural gas.

V12XLR

· #14 · Oct 28, 2003

The current V12 in development was said to have dimensions smaller than a V8 so it should fit. Whether it fits the "image" is another question. GM is spending a lot of time and money in Germany developing new products. Obviously they want to be more competitive in that market. Conquest sales are always a bonus. GM must claw back market share that has been lost to imports for too long...

paulr44

· #15 · Oct 28, 2003

IMO, if the sales and and demand hold up, they will come out with a 12 in 2005 on a "limited" production basis at a much higher cost than the xlr

86vette

· #16 · Oct 28, 2003

not a v12. but some type of hi-po version.

Dick Shonk

· #17 · Oct 30, 2003

TroubleT,

I think you should do your homework on the subject of the Cadillac V12 & V16 before you judge the fuel efficiency of either. If you did you would find that these engines like the Corvette engine are extremely fuel efficient. My corvette produces 350 Horsepower but, I get 27 miles per gallon on the highway. The V12 will operate like the Corvette LT5 V8 ( which only opened the port injection fully when it needed the extra power). The V12 will operate on six cylinders when you drive normally and only on all 12 when you really put foot into it. Believe it or not these engines may be extremely powerful and fuel efficient at the same time.

Dick Shonk

NY3UVL714

· #18 · Nov 12, 2003 (Edited)

V12XLR said:
The current V12 in development was said to have dimensions smaller than a V8 so it should fit. Whether it fits the "image" is another question. GM is spending a lot of time and money in Germany developing new products. Obviously they want to be more competitive in that market. Conquest sales are always a bonus. GM must claw back market share that has been lost to imports for too long...

:iagree
WAKE UP CADILLAC!!! In order to regain market share you have to WONDERFULLY OUTDO THE COMPETITION while providing the same price point.

I am pleased to see Cadillac going after the 2 seat hi-lux market segment with its XLR. I am displeased that Cadillac still thinks it can get away with putting in merely adequate horsepower in a flagship model. :nono
The pretty but flawed Allante had only 200 hp until 1993(last year of production). Competitors featured 300+ hp V8 and V12 engines. A balky manual top, FWD, & and modest performance made Allante seem half assed.
This time Cadillac has: correct for its segment RWD and an automated convertible hardtop. Unfortunately 315 hp is not enough when you pay $75,000! Currently 400+hp is the class standard.
A 400 hp V-8 and a 500hp V-12 would be just right.
:thumbs
Again someone is asleep at the wheel.

BMW, Lexus and Mercedes outsell Cadillac in its own home country. :eek
How did the high dollar import brands manage to pull this off? The import brands sold vehicles that were better engineered and many times offered better performance than our domestic offerings did at similar price points.
Once these makes established themsleves their prices soared along with their prestige.

For Cadillac to reclaim a top selling spot, new models like the XLR must have assembly quality that matches or exceeds the imports and performance far and above competitors in it's price class. Only with equivalent quality and unquestionably superior performance will the XLR take serious sales from its import brand competition.

Consider that VW (of all makes) builds the Passat & upscale Touareg SUV with interior quality that matches or exceeds most Cadillac models. VW even has and an over the top V-12 Phaeton which outclasses EVERYTHING Cadillac currently builds.
VW catches up to Cadillac? :skep
GM better pull out all the heavy artillery it can!

I want to see Cadillac back on top and for the XLR to SUCCEED as a serious contender. :flag

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NY3UVL714

· #19 · Jun 19, 2008

Years later--guess I was right

Back in 2003 I felt the XLR was sharp, but not impressive enough to compete strongly against luxury imports. Sales figures of XLR have proven what i knew 5 years ago.:nono

I love my black XLR and red Allante, but Cadillac hasn't done enough.

The standard $80k XLR should have the current 443hp XLR-V engine and equipment

The $100k XLR-V should add the 550hp supercharged CTS-V
engine paired up with an automatic.

Both should have an ultra luxury interior copied directly from Cadillac’s Sixteen concept.

This may seem like overkill, but during the last 20 years Cadillac has lost much prestige and money.

To regain prestige, Cadillac must go above and beyond what the competition is doing at the same price. :flag

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