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I have been following this thread and want to share my electrial experiences with my '06. I have had it for just over 2 years without any major problems. I have had several minor glitches with the top and trunk - trunk will not close using button, trunk will not open properly, etc. (and yes I do have the latest top programing)

I put about 5000 miles a year on the car with a mix of short and long trips and have not had any battery problems, but decided to get a Battery Tender last fall (local auto parts store had a special!). I was supprised to find that it took nearly a week to bring the battery up to full charge!

Now, although I have only had it out a few times this spring, I am finding that there are not little glitches with the trunk or top and am wondering if these cars are that sensitive to even a slightly less that fully charged battery. I will keep a watch on this and post anything I observe throughout the spring and summer. Maybe a Battery Tender should be standard on XLRs:rolleyes!
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Xlrlist01


Checked under the hood and battery cables are tight, my battery tender indicates 13 + volts, battery is only about 3 months old, so all looks good in that area. When I shut the car off the odometer continues to read for about 15 secs. All seems well except that the Service Vehicle Soon message randomly appears about every 5 - 7 starts.

I emailed the dealership, both the tech and the service rep. Pointed them to this site and asked for an assessment on what to do next. If they don't have any ideas I'll escalate to the Service Manager, but it seems knowledge or more pointedly support for the cars at the GM/Cadillac level is weak. Hopefully the tech still has some connections around the country.

I'll keep you posted.
 

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Xlrlist01


Checked under the hood and battery cables are tight, my battery tender indicates 13 + volts, battery is only about 3 months old, so all looks good in that area. When I shut the car off the odometer continues to read for about 15 secs. All seems well except that the Service Vehicle Soon message randomly appears about every 5 - 7 starts.

I emailed the dealership, both the tech and the service rep. Pointed them to this site and asked for an assessment on what to do next. If they don't have any ideas I'll escalate to the Service Manager, but it seems knowledge or more pointedly support for the cars at the GM/Cadillac level is weak. Hopefully the tech still has some connections around the country.

I'll keep you posted.
Cadillac has a national/international online knowledge database support system for issues like this and the repair "How To" bulletins that are issued for the XLR's 2004 through 2009.

If they haven't looked there for your issue it would be a good idea. I am not ready to believe you are the only XLR with this problem.

Regards



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Discussion Starter #25
The tech finally emailed a response to me. He looked at the threads here and elsewhere, but strongly believes the ECM is not involved. If it were he says it would be the Service Engine Soon and/or Engine Light depending on whether it was emissions or not. Because it is the Service Vehicle Soon light he believes it is being set by the BCM. He has showed me several issues with the BCM, but nothing matched. I assume they came from the database. He found nothing that displayed the message without a corresponding code. He also let me know that GM has gotten lax in their documentation, and with these vehicles there is no documentation that lays out what error creates this display message in the DIC. In the past things were very well documented, now they have to search through every system to trace a problem. He's hasn't received a response from the GM rep in charge of the XLR technical team, but of course they are onto other jobs now. He's supposed to try again and get back to me today. I'll keep you posted. I've yet to deal with the Service Manager directly, but its getting close.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Didn't think about our "cousin" cars, the Vettes. My buddy has an 08, I'll have to see if his service manuals talk about the "Service Vehicle Soon" message in the Vette. Not sure they have an equivalent message area, but its worth a shot. Maybe there will be some more detail there.

Thanks

Steve
 

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Xlrlist01


Checked under the hood and battery cables are tight, my battery tender indicates 13 + volts, battery is only about 3 months old, so all looks good in that area. When I shut the car off the odometer continues to read for about 15 secs. All seems well except that the Service Vehicle Soon message randomly appears about every 5 - 7 starts.

I emailed the dealership, both the tech and the service rep. Pointed them to this site and asked for an assessment on what to do next. If they don't have any ideas I'll escalate to the Service Manager, but it seems knowledge or more pointedly support for the cars at the GM/Cadillac level is weak. Hopefully the tech still has some connections around the country.

I'll keep you posted.
The 13V is good, but that is with the tender switched off isn't it? The reading of a battery that has been recently charged is useless, you need to run the headlamps for a few minutes (5 or so) to remove any surface charge on the battery plates and then measure the voltage.

However, not withstanding a new battery (could be defective, these things happen), it is the voltage at crank that matters.

In a different post it is stated that the w/s manual does not identify the source of the SVS message. Well my 2004 manual does. It is quite explicit and states that it is raised by the ECM for a non-emissions related problem. (This is on the right hand page, opposite the left hand page that is useless about the SVS message!)

I really don't think the BCM comes into this at all, unless there is an error in the w/s manual of course.

I would still have the terminals of the ECM cleaned and then if that does not fix it, borrow an ECM (after checking voltage during crank). As I have said, the most common reason I know for an equipment to not have stored fault codes when it should is either a power drop out has erased them or the equipment is faulty. In this case it is your ECM that is suspect.

Just for the record, I had a GM car with a defective ECM many years ago, when it failed on a journey (for about 60 seconds), the only hint was the car dropped out of overdrive, the backup systems were so good there was no obvious driveability problem. No fault codes stored then either!
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Thanks again, I think I'll just make sure the connectors on both the ECM and BCM are cleaned and reseated. After all, one guy says he replaced the BCM for repair, and he may have just effectively cleaned the connectors. May be a silly question, if the car is turned off and battery disconnected, and I then remove and clean the connectors, will it affect either of the modules and require resetting via a Tech2 or will they just reinitialize and work fine. I'd hate to do-it-myself and need the car towed rather than drop it at the dealer and pay to have it done. My gut says they should be fine, but with these cars you never know :rolleyes
 

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A visual inspection of the BCM connectors wouldn't hurt. Applying some contact cleaner might not be a bad idea either. You shouldn't need a Tech 2 if you're not replacing it.

An old TSB:

Component Description:
67. ELECTRICAL SYSTEM Bulletin Number: 4094
Bulletin Date: Jan 2001

Vehicle: 2,005 Cadillac XLR
Summary:
ELECTRICAL CONCERNS - WATER LEAK ON THE PASSENGER FLOOR OR BCM AREA. ( NHTSA ITEM NUMBER - 10020052 )

A new BCM is available on ebay for $140. A Tech 2 is required to complete the installation.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2004...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories


:cheers CC
 

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Discussion Starter #32
After almost a year of this problem and 8 trips to the dealership paying for parts and losing use of my car from 3 days to a week and half, still no resolution :cry

Here's two emails I got late last night and early this morning from the technician at my dealership after forwarding him some of the info I've collected here. This is frustrating.

email#1

"I can see them using the SVS message on an early failure of a PCM/ECM code, however they are required by ANSI to store freeze frame/fail record data when any code sets. I am not sure if we checked for ff/fr data even though the computer said no codes. we might try that next time you come by.

On most cars the SVS message is reserved for body functions, but like I said before engineers kind of do whatever they want since there are no laws around the use of this indicator/message. Please keep reminding me to do some research and feel free to stop byand I'll check the codes and freeze frames again.

email #2

There is a bulletin on some cars for certain issues to remove the connections, make sure they are clean and apply some dielectric grease. I have done it on a couple of cars but it really had no effect. It is possible to do it on your car but the location of the ECM makes it complicated.

It is in the right wheelhouse behind the front tire. You have to remove the shield to access the connections and even then it can be a pain because it is rather tight in there. How many times have you seen the message since you have been in last?

As you can read yourself, it's frustrating to know there are other error readings that could have, but weren't checked. There also is a bulletin describing the cleaning suggested here, but that wasn't found until I wrote him about it. By the way i read through the Service manual last night and when I finally got to page 899, it clearly stated that the SVS message is set by the ECM. sounds like the BCM is easily access and cleaned, but now I'm not sure that's the problems, but worth a try.

I'll keep you all posted. :skep
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Thanks for the encouragement and any help is appreciated. As was previously mentioned, it's hard to believe this is the first time this issue has appeared, hopefully some other tech out there has seen the same thing.
 

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email#1

"I can see them using the SVS message on an early failure of a PCM/ECM code,
I don't understand this. My 2004 w/s manual is 100% transparently clear on the meaning of this message. It means 'non-emissions related problem' and it is raised by the ECM. This is not an 'early failure of the ECM' message (though that could be the root cause). Later on (in this thread) there is a note re legal wording, which is true as far as it goes. However, that misses the point that a non-emissions related fault (and there are many) must NOT light the MIL (SES) lamp. This means that the ECM has to use a different message. Sometimes it is a lamp (a red circle with a ! in it is used by some), the XLR uses the SVS message.

however they are required by ANSI to store freeze frame/fail record data when any code sets. I am not sure if we checked for ff/fr data even though the computer said no codes. we might try that next time you come by.
And then again, maybe not. If you have a power glitch in the ECM it could easily erase all the ff data too. Anyway, what will it prove if there is any?

On most cars the SVS message is reserved for body functions,
But not the 2004 XLR. It is 100% reserved for the ECM.

but like I said before engineers kind of do whatever they want since there are no laws around the use of this indicator/message. Please keep reminding me to do some research and feel free to stop by and I'll check the codes and freeze frames again.
See notes about legal meaning of SES lamp above. Also, it took me about 3 minutes to look up the meaning of the SVS message, and I am using a paper copy of the w/s manual.
email #2

There is a bulletin on some cars for certain issues to remove the connections, make sure they are clean and apply some dielectric grease. I have done it on a couple of cars but it really had no effect. It is possible to do it on your car but the location of the ECM makes it complicated.

It is in the right wheelhouse behind the front tire. You have to remove the shield to access the connections and even then it can be a pain because it is rather tight in there. How many times have you seen the message since you have been in last?

As you can read yourself, it's frustrating to know there are other error readings that could have, but weren't checked. There also is a bulletin describing the cleaning suggested here, but that wasn't found until I wrote him about it. By the way i read through the Service manual last night and when I finally got to page 899, it clearly stated that the SVS message is set by the ECM. sounds like the BCM is easily access and cleaned, but now I'm not sure that's the problems, but worth a try.

I'll keep you all posted. :skep
Well, the good news is your service tech is talking to you. The bad news seems to be a reluctance to get down and do what needs doing, which is the look very closely at the ECM and the power supply (which includes the grounds!!!) to the ECM. You are just going to have to do this, that is, get this done.

Now on another point, I was looking at my XLR and remembered this thread, so I thought I would check that all the fuses and relays in the underhood relay center are firm. You know what? Every single one of them snugged down when I pressed it, maybe only a 1/64 of an inch for some, but for one relay it had nearly fallen right out. So, easy job for you. Lift the cover on the fuse center and check all the fuses are firm. In 2004 fuse 11 is the ECM's constant power supply.

Look on the bright side, this problem with your XLR is going to be fixed!
 

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Discussion Starter #36
I tend to agree. I purchased a copy of the 2005 XLR Service Manuals a while back. I dug them out and started looking, not very easy to dig through. Of course BCM or SVS message are no where to be found in the index. After some searching, page 899 of the manual says basically the same thing your 2004 does. the SVS is set by the ECM for a non-emissins relate engine problem. Thus my logic says the SVS message on, the ECM told it so and should know why. No codes in ECM may mean ECM problem, its a computer after all and could have a "glitch" as they say. On the flip side, I was told the XLR systems are redundant, if a code is received in the ECM there is a redundant code stored is the sending module (BCM, TCM, VCIM). All other modules had no code, once again pointed towards the ECM acting rogue. Conclusion, problem with ECM or untraceable electrical issue to the ECM...
 

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I tend to agree. I purchased a copy of the 2005 XLR Service Manuals a while back. I dug them out and started looking, not very easy to dig through. Of course BCM or SVS message are no where to be found in the index. After some searching, page 899 of the manual says basically the same thing your 2004 does. the SVS is set by the ECM for a non-emissins relate engine problem. Thus my logic says the SVS message on, the ECM told it so and should know why. No codes in ECM may mean ECM problem, its a computer after all and could have a "glitch" as they say. On the flip side, I was told the XLR systems are redundant, if a code is received in the ECM there is a redundant code stored is the sending module (BCM, TCM, VCIM). All other modules had no code, once again pointed towards the ECM acting rogue. Conclusion, problem with ECM or untraceable electrical issue to the ECM...
Get a new ECM fitted as a trial, by the sound of it the labor to get to it makes cleaning the connections a small part of the cost.

BTW, I looked up "Driver Information Center Description and Operation" in the index and it took me to 8-398 and 8-399, which is where a bunch of messages are described, including the SVS message.

All the best!
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Latest Update on SVS Message

Car is back in the shop. Still getting intermittent SVS message in the DIC, but no error codes in any of the computers, none of the history, nowhere.

After raising a stink with the Director of Service, there was miraculous contact made with GM engineers, including the guy (Chris I think?) who was responsible for the XLR line when it was in production. They are running some tests he suggested, and he is on his way to Atlanta where he says he will see and discuss the problem with one of the best XLR techs he worked with. So I am in waiting mode until tomorrow.

Here's the interesting part. He agrees with my local tech that it is a body problem being processed by the BCM or a problem with the BCM. They all agreed that the GM Service manual and other documentation is wrong. The BCM is solely responsible and sets the Service Vehicle Soon message. The ECM sets and controls the Service Engine Soon and Engine light. Who am I to argue?

I'll keep you ll posted. Oh yeah, they said if these tests or worst case replacing the BCM doesn't work, they're at a loss :skep
 

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Car is back in the shop. Still getting intermittent SVS message in the DIC, but no error codes in any of the computers, none of the history, nowhere.

After raising a stink with the Director of Service, there was miraculous contact made with GM engineers, including the guy (Chris I think?) who was responsible for the XLR line when it was in production. They are running some tests he suggested, and he is on his way to Atlanta where he says he will see and discuss the problem with one of the best XLR techs he worked with. So I am in waiting mode until tomorrow.

Here's the interesting part. He agrees with my local tech that it is a body problem being processed by the BCM or a problem with the BCM. They all agreed that the GM Service manual and other documentation is wrong. The BCM is solely responsible and sets the Service Vehicle Soon message. The ECM sets and controls the Service Engine Soon and Engine light. Who am I to argue?

I'll keep you ll posted. Oh yeah, they said if these tests or worst case replacing the BCM doesn't work, they're at a loss :skep
I find it difficult to believe the BCM is NOT controled/overshadowed by the ECM. The 'GMLAN" system works off of a very simple 'kingdom system', that has basic rules like a chess game. I (IMHO) feel that IF the BCM did report a body fault to the ECM and it was not athenticated (handshake) the ECM would overrule and log a fault. (sticky) There would be a "DIC report" and a fault in the ECM history. At this time the BCM may or may not know that it made an error. Kavassor CAN Kingdom system. CAN = controled area network. Choose one, BCM or ECM, there can only be ONE KING in any kingdom. I feel GM chose engine function (limp home mode) over body functions. You can 'pull a cable' if the body electrical fails and you will be able to open the door. What ' safety cable' is provided to prevent 'walking home' ? The all mighty ECM.
 

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Car is back in the shop. Still getting intermittent SVS message in the DIC, but no error codes in any of the computers, none of the history, nowhere.

After raising a stink with the Director of Service, there was miraculous contact made with GM engineers, including the guy (Chris I think?) who was responsible for the XLR line when it was in production. They are running some tests he suggested, and he is on his way to Atlanta where he says he will see and discuss the problem with one of the best XLR techs he worked with. So I am in waiting mode until tomorrow.

Here's the interesting part. He agrees with my local tech that it is a body problem being processed by the BCM or a problem with the BCM. They all agreed that the GM Service manual and other documentation is wrong. The BCM is solely responsible and sets the Service Vehicle Soon message. The ECM sets and controls the Service Engine Soon and Engine light. Who am I to argue?

I'll keep you ll posted. Oh yeah, they said if these tests or worst case replacing the BCM doesn't work, they're at a loss :skep
There are two options here:

1/ They are right

2/ They are wrong (and the service manual is right).

These cars were designed some time ago and memories are not perfect. There is no 'Service Engine Soon' DIC message (according to the 2004 w/s manual (and also assuming I have not missed it - always possible!)). I do agree that the 'Service Vehicle Soon' message sounds like a BCM type message, but weirdness never stopped software developers before now.

I can theorise a bunch of reasons why the Service Engine Soon message is missing, could be a programming error even, though the problem you are describing fits the ECM at least as well as the BCM (or a faulty IPC of course).

If they are as good as they say they are, they will fix it. The idea that they might run out of ideas is absurd.
 
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