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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This car is driving crazy....but nowhere else.....it has shut off 15 times and counting......it has always restarted...after a period of time like nothing was ever wrong....it leaves no codes and no MIL light is lit.....HELP ME....before I set it on fire !!!!
My wife won't even ride in the car anymore...two weeks ago it stopped in rush hour traffic.so I towed it off the road.......and ripped the whole front fascia off....$2,000 dollars later and the same problem still exists...
The Chevy dealer wants $2,000 to change the fuel pump.....but is that really the problem ?????? It always restarts after an hour or a minute who knows.....It will sometime run at an idle (16 psi fuel pressure) but the fuel line is totally aerated when the problem is present....I presume it is airless when it starts.....and it has 55psi according to my guage when ok........
Does anyone have any guesses,,,,,my wife will let me move back into the house if I fix it....so ANY help will be appreciated.......thanks
 

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This car is driving crazy....but nowhere else.....it has shut off 15 times and counting......it has always restarted...after a period of time like nothing was ever wrong....it leaves no codes and no MIL light is lit.....HELP ME....before I set it on fire !!!!
My wife won't even ride in the car anymore...two weeks ago it stopped in rush hour traffic.so I towed it off the road.......and ripped the whole front fascia off....$2,000 dollars later and the same problem still exists...
The Chevy dealer wants $2,000 to change the fuel pump.....but is that really the problem ?????? It always restarts after an hour or a minute who knows.....It will sometime run at an idle (16 psi fuel pressure) but the fuel line is totally aerated when the problem is present....I presume it is airless when it starts.....and it has 55psi according to my guage when ok........
Does anyone have any guesses,,,,,my wife will let me move back into the house if I fix it....so ANY help will be appreciated.......thanks


Sorry for your problems with your XLR.

This is definitely NOT a problem that can be corrected over the Internet.

My recommendation is to take the car to a Cadillac dealer and have the completed diagnostic set run. This is a safety issue so Cadillac will be very interested in resolving it if you couch it that way.



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This car is driving crazy....but nowhere else.....it has shut off 15 times and counting......it has always restarted...after a period of time like nothing was ever wrong....it leaves no codes and no MIL light is lit.....HELP ME....before I set it on fire !!!!
My wife won't even ride in the car anymore...two weeks ago it stopped in rush hour traffic.so I towed it off the road.......and ripped the whole front fascia off....$2,000 dollars later and the same problem still exists...
The Chevy dealer wants $2,000 to change the fuel pump.....but is that really the problem ?????? It always restarts after an hour or a minute who knows.....It will sometime run at an idle (16 psi fuel pressure) but the fuel line is totally aerated when the problem is present....I presume it is airless when it starts.....and it has 55psi according to my guage when ok........
Does anyone have any guesses,,,,,my wife will let me move back into the house if I fix it....so ANY help will be appreciated.......thanks
For a modern car to fail with no stored codes suggests a catastrophic loss of power to the ECU, (probable faulty ECU) or it thinks it has been stopped normally (i.e. you have switched the ignition off) (suspect a faulty ignition switch). A fuel rail pressure problem should set a code.

It is moderately unusual for there to be zero stored codes (but not impossible). Some codes are informational. There shouldn't be any in the ECU though, so in nominal running, the absence of ECU codes is a good thing. If you have not one stored code after a decent mileage since last service, I would at least consider whether or not the Tech-2 was working correctly.

Air in the fuel line is a very bad thing. As it is unlikely to be drawn in by the fuel pump (assuming the gas tank is reasonably full), the more likely source is a leaking connector in the fuel line. A close inspection of the fuel lines is indicated.

For a problem like this you really do need an XLR specialist.
 

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I had an 86 Corvette that did that, including once in the middle of a PA Turnpike construction zone. Like this case, no codes, no check engine light, restartable in a few minutes. The ECU was the culprit.
 

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Did you get any more information? I had a look to see how the fuel supply works and it is more complex than I had guessed (or assumed).

(If I read it right) There is a single pump that bleeds fuel off into a pipe that crosses from the left tank (where the pump is) into a venturi in the right tank which picks extra fuel up and carries it back to the left tank. This is how gas in the right tank gets used up. There is a second venturi in the left tank and a valve and a hole to stop the system siphoning gas into the right tank.

My guess (or assumption) was that there were two fuel pumps. The reason for this complexity is the transmission is in the way, so it isn't possible to connect the two tanks together at the bottom, they are connected together at the top!

Whatever, while more complex, none of this should result in air in the fuel line to the N* motor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
thanks for your interest....3 pumps...one high pressure high volume positive displacement impeller pump.the second jet pump moves fuel to the left into the sump of the module.the third pump is molded into the bottom of the sump,a ventury pump that also dumps into the sump....
the clue to this mystery is that my problem never happens when there is more than 3 gallons (approx) in the system.............
the top of the sump has a hole to allow fuel into the top,,,,,,,,,as soon as the sump must rely on the ventury pump to keep the well filled......the fuel level drops and air enters the system,,,,,,and you can guess the rest...lol
all this will be confirmed next tuesday when my tank scope gets delivered,,, LOL
My wife suggested some foreign object last week.....go figure....I think she got it right
will provide and update soon,,,meanwhile.....I keep 5-10 gallons in it,,,and it's fine...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
well......it's on the side of the road again,,,,but this time with 3/4 of a tank of gas.....so now I'm really perplexed......but the gas tank scope is on it's way....this time I put the guage on it and again 15-16psi and full of air......it took quite a while to release all the pressure...then I tryed to restart....but no luck. I put the guage back on....this time nothing...no fuel or any pressure....so now it seems that maybe the pump is not being comanded to run or there is an electrical problem....faulty controler or.....bad pump..
I think I'm back at square one till I can see into the tank....tomorrow....Ray
 

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well......it's on the side of the road again,,,,but this time with 3/4 of a tank of gas.....so now I'm really perplexed......but the gas tank scope is on it's way....this time I put the guage on it and again 15-16psi and full of air......it took quite a while to release all the pressure...then I tryed to restart....but no luck. I put the guage back on....this time nothing...no fuel or any pressure....so now it seems that maybe the pump is not being comanded to run or there is an electrical problem....faulty controler or.....bad pump..
I think I'm back at square one till I can see into the tank....tomorrow....Ray
BEFORE YOU SPEND ANY MORE TIME AND MONEY;

Please consider getting a new gas cap. It may be creating the pressure problem and not "throwing a code".

Total Cost under $20.



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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
thanks for your interest.......but it's not a bad cap, it would have set a code.....I wish it was.....when the cap is removed there is never any sounds of air moving around...no pressure no vacuum...I have since gone back to the car.....and it started right,,,, as if all was normal....but tomorrow my scope gets here,,,,hopefully that will bring success....
 

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There has been a recall for fuel pumps for some xlr's and other gm vehicles. Call your dealer and give them your vin # so they could verrify if your car has been effected. I had just done that today but my car was not recalled, but I also dont share the same problem as you. My gas guage is unreliable moving up and down speratically. If anyone shares my problem PLEASE help.
 

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thanks for your interest....3 pumps...one high pressure high volume positive displacement impeller pump.the second jet pump moves fuel to the left into the sump of the module.the third pump is molded into the bottom of the sump,a ventury pump that also dumps into the sump....
the clue to this mystery is that my problem never happens when there is more than 3 gallons (approx) in the system.............
the top of the sump has a hole to allow fuel into the top,,,,,,,,,as soon as the sump must rely on the ventury pump to keep the well filled......the fuel level drops and air enters the system,,,,,,and you can guess the rest...lol
all this will be confirmed next tuesday when my tank scope gets delivered,,, LOL
My wife suggested some foreign object last week.....go figure....I think she got it right
will provide and update soon,,,meanwhile.....I keep 5-10 gallons in it,,,and it's fine...
The venturi system is all very well, but what happens if it empties the right hand tank too fast? Will air get pulled into the system? I would have thought not as surely the main pump lifts gas from the bottom of the left hand tank. Any air drawn across from the right hand tank will float free before it is drawn in?

Bernoulli's equation states that the faster a fluid flows, the lower the pressure it generates, so if you have a problem with the fuel line and a joint is leaking, combined with a fast flow, it will pull air in. This must be a known problem? There can't be that many places where air can get drawn into the fuel line, a broken (cracked or damaged) main pump is becoming my #1 choice for a culprit.

HTHs
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks for your input.....you raise some good points...
This being a used car,,,,I can't be sure of it's history.There is currently a recall of fuel pumps by TI industries on replacement aftermarket pump modules they supplied from April to Decenber 2010.....this is not a GM recall .So I am currently investigating the possibility that my car has one of these units in it (I hope it does).....but without the proof of purchase,I need to pay the full cost of the labor involved....if it then turns out to be one of those in question,,,,TI will come good for the full cost......
To answer your concerns....
When there is more fuel...it simply circulates between the two tanks through the stainless steel return pipe at the top.....within that pipe, are two other small pressurised lines that feed and return from the pump in the right tank.......yes there is a critical fitting that has to be seperated high on the tank above the exhaust and driveshaft inside the crossover.
Although I have never removed a tank myself........I bet there is a "whole lot of cussing going on" while doing that job.In the write up I found at (GOOGLE XLR fuel system)it talks about the safety clip on these two lines and the importance of a good seal at this junction....as you state in your answer(Bernoulli).......
I have already purchase a new pump from GM .....so I have the benefit of being able to hold it it my hand and study it........the unit is quite compact ,,with the well or cup having the venturi pump cast or molded into the bottom of it,probably very vulnerable to contamination or debris,,,,,,it's a tiny piece that is always submerged,,,,so you wouldn't think it would induce areation...
I have registered my concerns about this vehicle with the NHTSA and am also awaiting a response from TI industries.......so hopefully....we find a solution.
Thanks again,,,,Caddyman
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I have done that,,,,,,the list is as long as my arm,,,with one reference to the fuel pump..however no really precise info.
The local dealer is giving me a pretty cold sholder because they didn't sell the car,,,,and I give them a hard time,,,,,because I'm upset and expect answers that are logical.
The dealer denies any knowledge of any recall related to the supplier of the pumps...so basicly.......they dont care that there is a safety issue with one of the cars that that sell...GM should be able to provide accurate detailed info on that VIN number for every repair done on it at any authorized dealership in North America,,,,whether warranty or not.....it should be only a key stroke away on their computer system.....they have no trouble contacting me to sell me a new car... LOL......
 

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FWIW: There is a database the government runs that will indicate issues like these that have ever been reported.

As far as the dealer giving you the cold shoulder, I would call Cadillac Customer Service and file a complaint AFTER you have met with the GM and possibly the owner and voiced your concerns.

They are on this site fairly regularly so you could send them a PM here.

Regards

Jerry



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Cadillac Customer Assistance

I would like to provide the number for Cadillac Customer Assistance.

The number is 800-458-8006. They will be the best people to get in touch with. I can set up a case for you if you would like, but it may be easier to just contact them.

Brent
GM Customer Service
 

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I had the same problem with my XLR I took it to the dealership 5 time for it, good thing it was still under warranty. They found the problem on the 5th trip part of the wire harness runs over the engine block and once the car would heat up it would short out and go dead, no power to anything at all. They replaced the harness and I havent had any problems with for the last year.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
sorry for being slow to respond...I hate to type...one finger hunt and peck...LOL
Well today is day 20 at the Cadillac dealer......the new pump I purchased from newgmparts.com was one of the recalled ones,so it had to be taken out again,wait for the replacement,,,and now wait again...because we are on vacation,,,my wife will fly home,and I will follow later when the car is ready.

I greatly regret ever taking the car to Royal Cadillac........Corvette technitians are far more knowledgeble on this chasis....but Cadillac customer service, insisted that I take it there....that will NEVER happen again....and I would warn anyone reading this to do the same. If your XLR needs work.....take it to a Corvette dealer....!
 
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