Most dealers are MORONS!
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Loyal Cadillac buyer gipped by Dealer
In light of the topic here, it is relevant to direct you to the link http://www.wxyz.com/wxyz/ys_investigations/article/0,2132,WXYZ_15949_2682532,00.html
which relates the abominable actions of a Cadillac dealer. A sad, but true, tale of an elderly woman (who was caregiver to her sick husband with dementia) buying a new Cadillac is told--and these customers have been loyal Cadillac buyers for over three decades. This dealer ripped them off repeatedly, first in a selling them a CTS, then a DeVille and then a Seville--all within a matter of days!
Hopefully, some 'pit bull' of an attorney will volunteer to represent these victims in an action for fraud, distress and other causes of action, against all parties involved.
Because of incidents like these, the time is coming when cars will be sold with set sticker prices, effectively removing any "haggling" associated with car buying, and that will lead to the demise of dealers such as this one. The denials by the management of this dealership, then the faint attempt to create goodwill, shows the audacity of these greedy people. At the very minimun, General Motors should remove any "Authorized" dealer designation.
Luckily, there are good Cadillac dealers out there, and we Cadillac enthusiasts must find and support them. My dealership in Pennsylvania has been selling Cadillacs since 1938, and due to positive sales and service experiences for many years (my parents have bought Cadillacs there since the sixties), I knew to buy my Cadillac from them, too.
In light of the topic here, it is relevant to direct you to the link http://www.wxyz.com/wxyz/ys_investigations/article/0,2132,WXYZ_15949_2682532,00.html
which relates the abominable actions of a Cadillac dealer. A sad, but true, tale of an elderly woman (who was caregiver to her sick husband with dementia) buying a new Cadillac is told--and these customers have been loyal Cadillac buyers for over three decades. This dealer ripped them off repeatedly, first in a selling them a CTS, then a DeVille and then a Seville--all within a matter of days!
Hopefully, some 'pit bull' of an attorney will volunteer to represent these victims in an action for fraud, distress and other causes of action, against all parties involved.
Because of incidents like these, the time is coming when cars will be sold with set sticker prices, effectively removing any "haggling" associated with car buying, and that will lead to the demise of dealers such as this one. The denials by the management of this dealership, then the faint attempt to create goodwill, shows the audacity of these greedy people. At the very minimun, General Motors should remove any "Authorized" dealer designation.
Luckily, there are good Cadillac dealers out there, and we Cadillac enthusiasts must find and support them. My dealership in Pennsylvania has been selling Cadillacs since 1938, and due to positive sales and service experiences for many years (my parents have bought Cadillacs there since the sixties), I knew to buy my Cadillac from them, too.
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1,952 Posts
MY THREE CENTS WORTH:
I have been handled in similiar ways at several dealers over the years --BMW,Cadillac, Mercedes and Porche.
PERCEPTIONS CAN BE DECIEVING-- I find it interesting to go into a dealership wearing casual clothing and see how you are treated. In most cases, the guy who is "up" will convince the rookie sales person to come see what you want.
In addition to my case, I am aware of 3 situations where this back fired as Web Fater pointed out. One situation was a construction worker who stopped at a Cadillac dealer in his shorts and consturction boots. He got out of a 4 wheel Jimmy" loaded with mud. Before he was done, the "rookie made 2 sales shocking the guy who was supposed to be "up".
2. A retired Ford Motor executive took his wife inot a local Mercedes dealership to buy her a 500SL. He and she were wearing shorts and casual shirts. He ended up leaving due to the snubbing and rude behavior of the floor personnel. In the end he bought a Jaguar converible again.
3. I rode a Harley inot the Cadillac dealership and was totally ignored. Of course I wouldn't let it go so I walked inot the new car sales managers office iand interrupted his meeting. Of course I let him know what was on my mind about his staff behavior.
In the end I bought the car from him directly and we are fast friends.
So IF the dealers are listening they can learn not to prejudge and they may make more sales and retain more customers.
I am of the opinion that the service lane personnel need to be upgraded too. I am tired of beingf trated like I am going to cheat them out of a bolt or tell them a lie about some imperfection that on the car.
My most recent incidents believe it or not had to do with the XLR AFTER the new car sales manager too me to the service manager and said he didn't want anyone else writing tickets on the XLR but him. So when I came in a wekk later to report the center air dam had been torn somehow --may in unloading or tie down I was met with "That's impossible"!! "Do you know how many inspections these cars go through"? My reply was yes do you? so he was insiting that I did the damage and that I should pay for the replacement. My resonse was get the part in and we'll se who pays for it. It was fixed the next week. (A $200 part at most). The installer did a crappy job of installing it so I fixed it myself.
So we all have a job to do to educate each other and share experiences so that things will get better over time.
Regards.
I have been handled in similiar ways at several dealers over the years --BMW,Cadillac, Mercedes and Porche.
PERCEPTIONS CAN BE DECIEVING-- I find it interesting to go into a dealership wearing casual clothing and see how you are treated. In most cases, the guy who is "up" will convince the rookie sales person to come see what you want.
In addition to my case, I am aware of 3 situations where this back fired as Web Fater pointed out. One situation was a construction worker who stopped at a Cadillac dealer in his shorts and consturction boots. He got out of a 4 wheel Jimmy" loaded with mud. Before he was done, the "rookie made 2 sales shocking the guy who was supposed to be "up".
2. A retired Ford Motor executive took his wife inot a local Mercedes dealership to buy her a 500SL. He and she were wearing shorts and casual shirts. He ended up leaving due to the snubbing and rude behavior of the floor personnel. In the end he bought a Jaguar converible again.
3. I rode a Harley inot the Cadillac dealership and was totally ignored. Of course I wouldn't let it go so I walked inot the new car sales managers office iand interrupted his meeting. Of course I let him know what was on my mind about his staff behavior.
In the end I bought the car from him directly and we are fast friends.
So IF the dealers are listening they can learn not to prejudge and they may make more sales and retain more customers.
I am of the opinion that the service lane personnel need to be upgraded too. I am tired of beingf trated like I am going to cheat them out of a bolt or tell them a lie about some imperfection that on the car.
My most recent incidents believe it or not had to do with the XLR AFTER the new car sales manager too me to the service manager and said he didn't want anyone else writing tickets on the XLR but him. So when I came in a wekk later to report the center air dam had been torn somehow --may in unloading or tie down I was met with "That's impossible"!! "Do you know how many inspections these cars go through"? My reply was yes do you? so he was insiting that I did the damage and that I should pay for the replacement. My resonse was get the part in and we'll se who pays for it. It was fixed the next week. (A $200 part at most). The installer did a crappy job of installing it so I fixed it myself.
So we all have a job to do to educate each other and share experiences so that things will get better over time.
Regards.
Sheri,
I started this thread just for the reason you stated.
Once dealers hear REALITY......Maybe.....just maybe THEY will learn about THEIR customers and just as importantly the ones they FORCED to go to another dealer or product.
This thread will become the #1 all time thread here because it is true and so widespread. It won't go away and the stories will be told over and over again each with a slightly different slant.
My stories are mild compared to what goes on out there based on what others are posting.
Do dealers expect you to put on a tuxedo to buy their car. Is THAT what it takes to be taken seriously?? I just don't know another word in the english language to describe that type behavior.
I started this thread just for the reason you stated.
Once dealers hear REALITY......Maybe.....just maybe THEY will learn about THEIR customers and just as importantly the ones they FORCED to go to another dealer or product.
This thread will become the #1 all time thread here because it is true and so widespread. It won't go away and the stories will be told over and over again each with a slightly different slant.
My stories are mild compared to what goes on out there based on what others are posting.
Do dealers expect you to put on a tuxedo to buy their car. Is THAT what it takes to be taken seriously?? I just don't know another word in the english language to describe that type behavior.
Joined
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50 Posts
:nono
Webfather,
I seriously doubt that the dealers who consider that they do justified will hear our plight. But those that don't turn a blind eye will take all of what was said into consideration. I think hell will have to freeze over for all the rest of them to develop ethics. Training just ain't gettin' it!
I guess that's why I am reluctant to purchase at this time. I get scared of all the slime and rotten smells I hear of the hunters who consider me game to hunt. After all, I am a woman. But an educated one at that. Don't they know a smart woman when they see one? Of course not because all I am is dollar signs.
Webfather,
I seriously doubt that the dealers who consider that they do justified will hear our plight. But those that don't turn a blind eye will take all of what was said into consideration. I think hell will have to freeze over for all the rest of them to develop ethics. Training just ain't gettin' it!
I guess that's why I am reluctant to purchase at this time. I get scared of all the slime and rotten smells I hear of the hunters who consider me game to hunt. After all, I am a woman. But an educated one at that. Don't they know a smart woman when they see one? Of course not because all I am is dollar signs.
Joined
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485 Posts
Never prejudge by looks or gender
As an XLR dealer I will totally agree with a lot that has been said recently here. I have heard so many stories over the years that it does not make sense to me.
First regarding a woman walking in alone:
Most Sales Executives know the simple fact that 80% of a buying decision will go to the woman. If a couple walks in together the focus MUST be given to each individual, regardless whom the vehicle is for. Paying special attention that you are focusing on the womans concerns.
Some sales people dont understand the simple fact that if the woman is against the vehicle, the color or a feature they most likely will not get it. To be condescending to a woman is stupid and foolish. Corporations including GM have A great percentage of woman as senior executives.
The Product/Marketing manager for the XLR is a Woman. The Marketing manager for the 2005 STS is a woman. The product Analyst for both vehicles is a woman. Look at what is going on with the XLR, I feel they have hit the mark!
Regardless if it is an Attorney, Physician or Banker with a poor personality traits that can be a huge turnoff. Yes, there are still some Neanderthals out their in all personal one on one related business. That is why it is so important for a perspective purchaser to check out the dealers CSI Customer Satisfaction Index and other areas such as the length of tenure of their sales people, as you would do by receiving referrals to other professionals.
One area that I feel would serve an individual that walks into a Cadillac dealer to ask for the XLR Specialist. He/she has gone through extensive training to know this vehicle inside and out. The XLR Experience for these elite sales execs is the most intensive sales related program Cadillac has ever instituted. I wont get into the service training as I could fill up 5 pages.
Regarding individuals wearing casual clothes:
I have to say our dealership is also a Bentely, Rolls Royce facility. The vast majority of our clients walk in wearing Jeans or relaxed clothes not suits. A great percentage of individuals that can afford any luxury vehicle can come and go as they please. They may simply take the afternoon or day off to stop bye to look at a vehicle in their casual attire.
To judge a book by it's cover is bad business
Allen Kulbersh
Steve Foley Cadillac XLR
www.Cadillac-XLR.com
As an XLR dealer I will totally agree with a lot that has been said recently here. I have heard so many stories over the years that it does not make sense to me.
First regarding a woman walking in alone:
Most Sales Executives know the simple fact that 80% of a buying decision will go to the woman. If a couple walks in together the focus MUST be given to each individual, regardless whom the vehicle is for. Paying special attention that you are focusing on the womans concerns.
Some sales people dont understand the simple fact that if the woman is against the vehicle, the color or a feature they most likely will not get it. To be condescending to a woman is stupid and foolish. Corporations including GM have A great percentage of woman as senior executives.
The Product/Marketing manager for the XLR is a Woman. The Marketing manager for the 2005 STS is a woman. The product Analyst for both vehicles is a woman. Look at what is going on with the XLR, I feel they have hit the mark!
Regardless if it is an Attorney, Physician or Banker with a poor personality traits that can be a huge turnoff. Yes, there are still some Neanderthals out their in all personal one on one related business. That is why it is so important for a perspective purchaser to check out the dealers CSI Customer Satisfaction Index and other areas such as the length of tenure of their sales people, as you would do by receiving referrals to other professionals.
One area that I feel would serve an individual that walks into a Cadillac dealer to ask for the XLR Specialist. He/she has gone through extensive training to know this vehicle inside and out. The XLR Experience for these elite sales execs is the most intensive sales related program Cadillac has ever instituted. I wont get into the service training as I could fill up 5 pages.
Regarding individuals wearing casual clothes:
I have to say our dealership is also a Bentely, Rolls Royce facility. The vast majority of our clients walk in wearing Jeans or relaxed clothes not suits. A great percentage of individuals that can afford any luxury vehicle can come and go as they please. They may simply take the afternoon or day off to stop bye to look at a vehicle in their casual attire.
To judge a book by it's cover is bad business
Allen Kulbersh
Steve Foley Cadillac XLR
www.Cadillac-XLR.com
Mr. XLR-
I agree with your thoughts. I made the suggestion to the people who were not happy to make the dealers aware. I think it may be constructive to stores who want to improve, and if they are blissfully unaware, they can't begin the process to fix the problem.
I have had conversation with several of the women you mentioned, and I have to agree with you. Any person in the automotive industry should realize that women wield a great deal of influence in automible purchasing, and if they do not, they do need to be made aware.
If there are as many unhappy customers out there, it might make some dealers re-evaluate what they are doing, and make improvements.
It sounds like your manner of handling customers is not what every Cadillac customer is seeing, when they should be. If the dealers read this forum, they will see a good snapshot of the real-world customer's feelings(and some excellent examples of the type of referral they would like to have being directed their way)
I agree with your thoughts. I made the suggestion to the people who were not happy to make the dealers aware. I think it may be constructive to stores who want to improve, and if they are blissfully unaware, they can't begin the process to fix the problem.
I have had conversation with several of the women you mentioned, and I have to agree with you. Any person in the automotive industry should realize that women wield a great deal of influence in automible purchasing, and if they do not, they do need to be made aware.
If there are as many unhappy customers out there, it might make some dealers re-evaluate what they are doing, and make improvements.
It sounds like your manner of handling customers is not what every Cadillac customer is seeing, when they should be. If the dealers read this forum, they will see a good snapshot of the real-world customer's feelings(and some excellent examples of the type of referral they would like to have being directed their way)
The reason dealers across the country should ALL be reading this is we have NO AGENDA.
We are CURRENT Cadillac customers just sharing experiences we have had. Good, bad, and ugly.
If they want to improve the way they handle customers and close more sales they will take the time to understand what is being posted.
I don't care either way. It does not affect my income. Does not affect my livelyhood.
But dealers....we are doing you a favor by giving you feedback you would otherwise not get. What you do with the info is solely up to you.
And believe me, the stories are FAR from over.
We are CURRENT Cadillac customers just sharing experiences we have had. Good, bad, and ugly.
If they want to improve the way they handle customers and close more sales they will take the time to understand what is being posted.
I don't care either way. It does not affect my income. Does not affect my livelyhood.
But dealers....we are doing you a favor by giving you feedback you would otherwise not get. What you do with the info is solely up to you.
And believe me, the stories are FAR from over.
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50 Posts
I'm sorry Sheri, but I think those of them that hear it and don't want to improve, well I think should lose the franchise. But we all know how that works out. I think all Cadillac dealerships should be held accountable for their ethics. Come on, how many times do you think it is ethical for a dealer to tell someone to go ask GM for a private offer the dealer knows the customer can't have. Stop being a wuss and tell us the truth!:bangheadsheri said:
I do not follow on the dealer telling customer to ask for a private offer they know they cannot have. What are you referring to?
I realize that each dealer has the opportunity to run their store as they see fit. There are limits placed on them by the sales and service agreement with the manufacturer, but there are also many state dealer protection laws also.
I just think it would be interesting and possibly helpful for the dealers to see what the "real" world thinks. A happy customer will tell a few people, an unhappy customer will tell everyone. You have to admit that this forum is a far-reaching "everyone".
GM has sent letters and messages regarding the pricing over MSRP complaints to dealers, but the state dealer protection laws in many states protect a dealers right to charge what he pleases. How important this is will vary by dealer. My suggestion was for those who were not happy to "hold up a mirror" to the store they were dissatisfied with.
Regarding the dealer ethics and losing franchises, again, the state laws make it difficult for the manufacturer to do. In this regard the customer has the greater ability to do this. In the car business, the customer is the jury and they vote with their checkbook. A store that is not selling cars will have a difficult time staying in business.
I realize that each dealer has the opportunity to run their store as they see fit. There are limits placed on them by the sales and service agreement with the manufacturer, but there are also many state dealer protection laws also.
I just think it would be interesting and possibly helpful for the dealers to see what the "real" world thinks. A happy customer will tell a few people, an unhappy customer will tell everyone. You have to admit that this forum is a far-reaching "everyone".
GM has sent letters and messages regarding the pricing over MSRP complaints to dealers, but the state dealer protection laws in many states protect a dealers right to charge what he pleases. How important this is will vary by dealer. My suggestion was for those who were not happy to "hold up a mirror" to the store they were dissatisfied with.
Regarding the dealer ethics and losing franchises, again, the state laws make it difficult for the manufacturer to do. In this regard the customer has the greater ability to do this. In the car business, the customer is the jury and they vote with their checkbook. A store that is not selling cars will have a difficult time staying in business.
Hi Folks,
Sheri makes a very good point in that a franchise is an independent buisness, i.e., the reason for Suggestion Retail Price. Given this, each franchise is subject to the better business folks of the state in which it exists. While there are franchise rules to pay attention to the buisness regulation is subject to state by state law.
The liberal side of the fence would love to have the government look out for everyone. The conservative side would leave it to the buyer-beware side.
However, the buyer-beware, does include a saftey net for those that got nailed by the bad guys.
It would be great in the free enterprise system that we can cover everyone on every transaction. However, that would paramont to total socialism, and do we really want to go there?
DFXLR
Sheri makes a very good point in that a franchise is an independent buisness, i.e., the reason for Suggestion Retail Price. Given this, each franchise is subject to the better business folks of the state in which it exists. While there are franchise rules to pay attention to the buisness regulation is subject to state by state law.
The liberal side of the fence would love to have the government look out for everyone. The conservative side would leave it to the buyer-beware side.
However, the buyer-beware, does include a saftey net for those that got nailed by the bad guys.
It would be great in the free enterprise system that we can cover everyone on every transaction. However, that would paramont to total socialism, and do we really want to go there?
DFXLR
41 - 52 of 52 Posts
