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Most dealers are MORONS!

41564 Views 51 Replies 12 Participants Last post by  DFXLR
I thought that this subject needed it's own thread.

No offense to dealers here, just would like you to hear the REAL: STORY that is completely unfiltered.

MSRP.....they play games now that creates ill will and bites them in the ass later.

The best way to sell an SL for Mercedes is to screw with a customer coming in the doors of Cadillac.

Dealers should do THEIR JOB by taking orders on the xlr's and stop looking for the big score.

They are SCHMUCKS and I'll tell you EXACTLY why.

Think of all the people Cadillac dealers are pissing off playing games with the xlr. Let's say each dealer pisses off 3 people a day this year. That is 1000 customers these MORON dealers pissed off trying to make an extra $5k or $10k. Multiply that by all the caddy dealers pulling this crap and GM should be the one that stops it.

I got news for the MORON DEALERS....those 1000 guys you pissed off have a lot more buying power than you trying to make a FAST $5k on a single unit. THAT is what makes you morons by not understanding that part of the equation.

Just PROVES the shortsightedness of MOST dealers.
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Well let me ask this.....

Is a dealer better off selling ONE xlr and making an extra $5K or $10k or is he smarter to keep that one on the floor and take orders for others?

Now I am sure the first thing you will hit me with is a limited production, but does that mean you can't take orders for 2005?

Obviously even dealers themselves have mixed emotions. Some dealers would NEVER go above sticker as indicated in this forum.

And as a CONSUMER who do you think we should respect more?

As a CONSUMER when you KNOW some dealers are selling for MSRP what does it say about those that don't?

I paid over sticker and I have no regrets and I would do it again. I decided I wanted it and a few grand wasn't that important to me.....but that is just me. However that is not the point of the post.

The point is are dealers shooting themselves in the foot in the long run for a few grand in the short term??
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I just have to comment on this.

It is true that every business has top-notch and bottom of the barrell performers. And I do mean every business.

The XLR is truly a niche market vehicle. Virtually every person who sees one, wants one. The truth is, most cannot afford one.

Mr XLR's comments speak to his and his dealership's professionalism. While I have not had any dealings with them, I can assure you that he and the store are held in high esteem by the Cadillac brand, and GM. His perspective is that of a professional employed by a dealer with an excellent reputation.

Just as one would look for a doctor's board certifications, an attorney's law degrees and professional affiliations, etc. I would think that the customer would choose a business(dealer) with similar credentials. The first question I would ask a Cadillac dealer is whether they are a SFE dealer. The acronym means Standards for Excellence. Mr. XLR works for one.
To all:

I would suggest that all those who have been listening ot Webfather visit his website. It is the absolute site of truth and justice or should I say visit and make your own conclusion. I rest my case with the guy who uses moron in nearly every sentense.

As for the 1st Amendment as was stated earlier there is also on the books slander, which brings a big price.

I would just suggest that all of you should keep in mind that just opposite the FIRST AMENDMENT is SLANDER not to mention Bias. Also, I would like to you keep in mind that I am not an attorney, I am just someone who has seen the light. And Webfather has not, while he very well may have a good argument with a dealer or two he does not have, at least to my knowledge, to make a global statement. Thus my cause not to give cause for the free marke to sue the heck out of those who are attempting to ban a free enterprize without due representation.

i.e., We have long since left linching behind us. Thank God!

Again, I am not an attorney, just a very educated vitcum of our system.

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Sales Professionalism

To Shari:
Welcome to the forum as a new member. Thank you for your kind words from someone I have never had the pleasure to know until now.

I have always based my business on being straight forward and keeping my clients updated with true and factual information. I feel seeling an XLR or any vehicle for over MSRP may get you the quick 5k-10k (webfather) but do you have a client? a relationship to base 18+ years on? and usually a friend? in most cases the answer will always be NO!

Thank you
Allen Kulbersh

Steve Foley Cadillac XLR
No problem, while we have not had contact. As the employee of another SFE dealer, I am fully aware of the reputation you and your store have. Not apple-polishing, just the impression you have left on folks I have contact with.

It is a shame there are customers who have been left with the dealer impressions posted above, but not every dealer or salesperson deserves to be painted with the tar and chicken feathers.

Time will tell on the pricing issues, but I think the dealers who stick to MSRP may have customers who are forced by production to wait longer, but will have the confidence and trust in the relationship to continue doing business and offer their recommendation to friends.


Did I mention a SINGLE NAME??

You are no attorney so STOP acting like one!

If you don't like what I am saying....don't read it.

If the post was so over the top, it would be pulled.

YOU can't seem to get past my initial "Provocotive" post.....but have you even read my respnoses or do you just want to shut me up?

btw....are YOU a dealer??
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It is interesting that instead of debating a single POINT I have made all you want to do is get personal with ME.

The thread starter was provocative and GENERAL in nature. It pointed the finger at nobody specific. It is an OPINION. Maybe where you come from OPINIONS are not allowed.

Are you going to tell me that there are NO dealers out there that are morons.....and MUCH worse??

Moron....."a very stupid person"

In this case....stupid DEALERS.

But this is the first post I have used moron in since my initial one....


You want to defend a specific dealer.....fine and dandy......but I did not point at a single one. I used the word "MOST". Maybe I should have used the word "MANY".

Meanwhile I was talking NUMBERS and whether doing what they do is actually in their best interest. Let's stay on THAT pointy and move on. ;-)
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I am not a dealer, but I do work for one.

I am not accusing you of slander, I find the treatment you have report unconscionable. If a customer was treated that way by an employee of our dealership, the door would be shown to them. I am not trying to trash you personally.

I do agree with you that the most powerful vote is delivered with a checkbook. I do not dispute that there are dealers who are less desirable to work with. However, there are dealers who recognize their customer as the reason for their existence, and who do work hard to maintain lifetime relationships. Those are the dealers who have customers bringing their friends and family to "their" dealer to make sure they get the same attention. As you have previously stated in several posts, you prefer to business over the internet or telephone. My reference to another member of this board is due to recommendations from his customers on this and other boards, as well as from industry contacts the customer would not have. No offense intended.
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As to the pricing issue, many Cadillac dealers do not like the over msrp either. Cadillac does not like it, customers do not like it, but with the laws the way they are, they cannot legally prevent it.

You are entitled to you opinion about any and all dealers. I was merely making a point that there are professional dealers out there and that one who is an active member of this board is recognized as the sort you seek not only by his customer, but other dealers also. Not all dealers seek to trash each other.

We are seeing the same situation with the V-series CTS. We do not like it either, and that is why we are selling as many out of state as we are in. While this car is not in the price point of the XLR, it is as low volume, with comparable unmet demand, with dealers doing the same markup. I would like to see the allocation of the XLR go the way this one has, so that dealers who sit on the car to sell to the highest bidder, the allocation goes to dealers selling them. I believe this would stop a great deal of what you rightly object to on the price issue.
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I find the treatment you have report unconscionable. If a customer was treated that way by an employee of our dealership, the door would be shown to them. I am not trying to trash you personally.

Hi Sheri,

I have not taken your posts personally at all and I thank you for your comments.

The REASON I buy my cars now over the phone and the internet is DIRECTLY RELATED to the level of service I get when I walk into the door of ANY DEALER and ANY BRAND.

The car buying experience is about the WORST one can have. That's too bad cuz I really used to get excited about going into a dealer and buy a new car. Now I would rather go to the dentist.

Thanks for recognizing that there are different levels of dealers out there. Dealers that don't recognize that ARE the ones I am talking to and about.

Before the net we were basically STUCK with whoever the local dealer was. Now you can actually CHOOSE and for the first time a consumer can compare dealers.

One thing is for sure, the next car I buy I will find a forum FIRST and then locate GREAT dealers like the one you work for.

Thanks for taking your time to respond!
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My main point was that a dealer would end up making more PROFIT and have more CUSTOMERS without trying to add to the MSRP.

Let me see how I can word this....

Sheri, did your dealer make more than $10k selling many xlr's at MSRP and getting several new customers as opposed to trying to make the quick buck on a single unit?

My belief is the answer is YES and that would be the point I was making.
I hope your future experiences do not disappoint you. Checking the forums is actually a great way to get a feel for the kind of dealer you are looking for. That is what I was referring to in the reference checking department. Trying to choose words with space limitation in mind. Since you are not (I assume) happy with your local dealer, based on your experience, the word-of -mouth referral you get from one-on-one contact is most closely duplicated on the boards with individuals seriously interested in the vehicles. From what I have followed for months, board members are honest about the experiences they have had-good,bad, and awful. On this board, the customers who have had good experiences seem to want to share their experience also. This is just an extension of bringing "friends" to "their" dealer. Generally a great "real-world" reference check.
Ours are MSRP only. First year build allocation was reserved by current customers a year before we had firm build date, so our problem has been that we have a wait list much longer than our allocation. We have had customers become angry because ours were all spoken for so early. The over-msrp issue has driven the price of the used ones trickling into the market over msrp even to the dealer. The two used ones we got the dealership had to pay over sticker for, for cars with 300 miles on it, and 6500 miles.

We do not like the situation, but are held as captive by the new vehicle supply chain, and prices the used ones are bringing as the retail customer is.
I have heard that the dealerships that have been authorized to sell the XLR will have to take in the end, if you understand my meaning. The launch of the XLR was as important as the air we breathe to Cadillac. Every complaint that has been made to Cadillac concerning a dealer and the pricing thing is probably now sitting in the office of 'The Don' (what I call Mark LeNeve). I think that of course there are no legal ramifications that can be taken, but how about allocation? I bet you the dealerships that are selling these vehicle outrageously over MSRP didn't think of that.

I used to talk to a dealer once and he told me that GM put some dealerships our of business becuase they began reducing allocation of all the brands they carried, gradually. I think the XLR game is going to be played the same way. My advice to those who want to make a quick buck: play nice or Caddy won't.:glol :glol :glol :glol :glol :glol :glol:glol :glol :glol
In a lot of ways I agree with Webfather. I may not be as abrupt in some of the opinions (or name calling), but we have all had bad experiences buying a car (or two).

I'll relate one of them...My first car that *I* bought was a new 1987 Cadillac Cimarron. Now the first thing you should ask is "Why would anyone buy a glorified Chevy?" and I have no defense for that. But, I was young and an inexperienced car buyer. So much so that I picked up the Cimarron at night from the dealer.

When I looked at the car the next morning in sunlight, the paint across the hood and lower panels had streaks running through the paint. It took four months before the problem was resolved. It wasn't the dealer that finally provided the solution, it was Cadillac that bought back the car and provided a new car. That dealer is no longer in business but I still remember that experience painfully.

The good part is that Cadillac in my eyes came out looking great since they did step up to the plate. In some strange way that experience 17 years ago (gasp!) made it easier to buy the XLR. But, I never shopped at that dealership again.

My favorite quote was from the GM at the former dealership who said, "It will be a cold day in hell before we take your car back". I guess it got very cold in April 1987.

Over the years I've learned to look for a good dealer and do my homework prior to exchanging money. David Taylor was the fourth Cadillac dealer I went to looking for the XLR. They were easily above the rest. So, the good dealers are out there and the bad ones just don't get my business.

I've also learned to never pick up a car at night...:lol
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Welcome to the Forum, your input is a breath of fresh air especially in light o the orger.

In a previous response I told Webfather that I will not give such a outward negative person my time of day in that I have better things to do with my time.

The one thing I have learned is that you can not change people if they as so convicted and one needs to move on. It's to bad that he can not see how other view him.

Again, Welcome Aboard,

Thanks for the welcome!

Regarding Webfather's posts, he has a right to express his thoughts just as we all do. Sadly, he is not the only person to have that sort of experience. My point of view is that there are stores and sales consultants who are of the quality he desires. I wish there were more of them.

My point, and I believe he would not disagree, that in the selection and purchase of a vehicle, seeking references is a good beginning point. Great dealers and sales consultants will be as highly recommended as great lawyers, doctors, financial advisors, etc. I think this is especially true in the high-end and specialty brands. The customer has the right to expect courteous and professional treatment from the businesses he or she patronizes, whatever they may be. I like Jeff Gitomer's take( Customer satisfaction is worthless, Customer loyalty is priceless). While I would argue the satisfaction being worthless, he makes some very good points.

Customers are not alone in the frustration over the MSRP plus tactics. This situation makes it difficult for dealers who refuse to play the game because these cars are sitting unsold, when there are so many customers on dealer waitlists who would be driving this fantastic car if the dealers who are selling them could get the cars that they need to meet their customer demand.

Regarding my comments about Alan, the store I work for is not in the same state, but word does get around, and the words that get around regarding him and his store are good. This from the customer standpoint, as well as from industry sources.

If nothing else, the internet forums add another block to the neighborhood. From what I have seen on this and other boards, there are as many positive recommendations as there are buyer beware warnings. Very powerful, I think.

Just a final thought, since I am wandering mentally:

You would never breed a thoroughbred without carefully researching the stud's pedigree, you look for good bloodlines, stamina, confirmation, heart, and the desire to run. Maybe some of these traits(translated to accomodate the difference in species) should be more highly prized in the industry. No broken down nag has ever won the Triple Crown.
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the orger???

So who is the name caller now??

DFXLR....seems you just keep reading my first post over and over and over and have not read anything else I have posted.

You have not answered a SINGLE point I have made nor others. Wish I was PERFECT just like you.

You think dealers are all angels? That makes you a FOOL.

You think someone can't share their actual dealer experinces in a forum? That makes you a FOOL.

You think that you can't express an opinion. THAT makes you a BIG FOOL.

And I am NOT calling you a moron. I am calling you a FOOL and below is the definition so you don't get your panties all tied in knots like you have the last few days.

Some fools can't READ and make it personal.

Fool....."one lacking in common powers of understanding"

Now you'll probably want to sue me???

What an unfortunate waste of time and energy!

Can't you just GET OVER YOURSELF ALREADY and DROP IT and MOVE ON????? Really sir....what is the point of YOUR ranting against ME?????

I apologize to everyone here for this. Not my intention. My original post was GENERAL in nature and to hear other experiences from consumers and dealers. I NEVER thought there would be a personal attack for trying to discuss an issue.

How VERY sad that is happening in THIS forum.
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How about a truce and we call this a dead thread?
That would be fine with me.

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