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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I thought that this subject needed it's own thread.

No offense to dealers here, just would like you to hear the REAL: STORY that is completely unfiltered.


MSRP.....they play games now that creates ill will and bites them in the ass later.

The best way to sell an SL for Mercedes is to screw with a customer coming in the doors of Cadillac.

Dealers should do THEIR JOB by taking orders on the xlr's and stop looking for the big score.

They are SCHMUCKS and I'll tell you EXACTLY why.

Think of all the people Cadillac dealers are pissing off playing games with the xlr. Let's say each dealer pisses off 3 people a day this year. That is 1000 customers these MORON dealers pissed off trying to make an extra $5k or $10k. Multiply that by all the caddy dealers pulling this crap and GM should be the one that stops it.

I got news for the MORON DEALERS....those 1000 guys you pissed off have a lot more buying power than you trying to make a FAST $5k on a single unit. THAT is what makes you morons by not understanding that part of the equation.

Just PROVES the shortsightedness of MOST dealers.
 

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Webfather,

In all of your ranting and raving please keep in mind that the published retail price, i.e., window sticker, is actually the "Manufacture's Suggested Retail Price" and is called this because each dealer is an indpendent buisness. The free enterprise system well live in allows for the free marke to charge what it it bear.

While you have an agruement to some degree can you tell me that the car buying public always tells the truth. I do believe this is a two way street.

DFLXR
 

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Ill say this Cadillac has a LONG way to go in the dealership dept. A typical MB dealer contains young salespeople who know their product inside out and are making a living working there so they stick around.

A typical Caddy dealer has a older salesperson who can tell you all about the 76 Deville but should be working at a chevy dealer.

That being said its product that drives sales and as long as they keep making cars like the XKR people will buy regardless of the dealers.

But if Caddy want to compete with BMW or MB they need to really overhall their dealers and salespeople
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
XLR....could not agree more!

DFXLR.....My POINT is "Make hay when the sun shines"

Why a dealer would be PROUD to have no hay is beyond me.

I don't disagree that they have the right to raise the price. My POINT is while they THINK they can make an extra $10k on ONE LOUSY CAR, their ATTITUDE costs them so much MORE.

As far as the "Car buying public telling the truth"

A. That ain't their job. It is the job of a PROFESSIONAL salesmen to draw them out and THAT is a tough thing to find at MOST dealers.

B. The BIGGEST lie a customer tells is "I am not buying today I am just looking"

If a salesmen can't see thru that then he should work at something else.

The #1 failure as I see it comes down to the following:

"When you see John Jones thru John Jones eyes, you will sell John Jones what John Jones buys"

Which brings me to a VERY funny story.

In 2001 I went to buy a new Rolls Royce. I expected to find a first rate sales pro on their floor. What I got was a very distinguished 65 year old KNOW NOTHING.

He told me how the RR seats have EVERY possible adjustmment.

When I went to move the bottom seat to make it longer he says...."Yes, that is a nice feature that Mercedes has but it is not on the Rolls.

THEN he asked me if I golf. I said no I didn't.

His response was to show me the trunk and tell me 4 sets of clubs would fit.

So now I know I am dealing with a rookie moron who does not even listen. How they could put someone like that out on the floor of a Rolls Royce/Bentley dealer is beyond me.

Salesmen need to listen FIRST.

10 minutes later I went and bought the Mercedes. Was not my intention as I put the funds in my checking account for the Rolls the day before.

btw, the Rolls has the WORST front seats in ANY car I have ever been in. They really are bad. I only hope that new Bentley they just came out with has better ones.
 

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Webfather,

All I can say is when dealing with someone, regardless of the subject, that can not engage in open discussion of a subject that finds it necessary to use the use terms such as "moron", and alike, in every third or fouth sentense is not a person who is looking for an open, two way, conversation. I just don't have the time to deal with such an attitude.

DFXLR
 

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Hey Webfather I think counting all your $$ over the years has gone to you head...............
Get a Life Dude!
 

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XLR Professional Sales Executives

XLR Professional Sales Executives have spent months of time eating, sleeping, breathing this Roadster and it's competition. Cadillac has gone to extreme lengths to make the XLR experience
different.

An XLR Sales Executive should just as easily be able to tell you how the SL500, SC430 and the XK8 compete with the XLR and how each feature varies from car to car. Cadillac has supplied each of their XLR dealers the tools to be able to discuss each vehicle in a very understanding way.

As for old sales people that only know 1976 Devilles I have a comment on that. A 60-70 year old Doctor has gained the respect of his patients and Colleagues after 30-40 years of perfecting his craft. The same professionalism and respect is given to most attorneys, brokers, and bankers.

As I am only 43 years old and feel I have acheived the same level of respect from those above mentioned "other" professionals. This is partially because of my 18 years at the same Cadillac dealership. Actually 7 out of 10 Professionals at our facility have been with us for more than 13 years.

The same type of respect and understanding should be given to any professional Executive regardless if they are a CEO, CFO or any seasoned businessman that has given their knowledge and professionalism for 30-40 years.

As for the comment of dealers trying to make a fast buck, their is not enough space in all the threads for me to expound upon the professions asking for outlandish fees for their services.

Regarding the XLR, I have not sold a single one in excess of MSRP. From the 8 Neiman Marcus Editions I delivered to each and every one of the regular XLR's. As it was stated earlier, The "S" of MSRP means suggested. Though I do not agree with marking up a vehicle over MSRP, each dealer has the option to raise or LOWER that amount to his or her desire. I would say 99% of the time dealers deliver vehicles for a sizeable lower amount than MSRP.

Remember Cabbage Patch Dolls or TickleMe Elmo's people were fighting in isles to pay whatever to get one. Lets not forget the AIRlines that usually raise their fares during peak travel times. Please, when was the last time you purchased Roses on Valentines Day. So please, dont cast stones without looking all around.
Thank You
Allen
 

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With 18 years of experience Mr XLR could not tell me about the 76 Deviile only the 1986 model :)

I think all of these older expert career salesman are working for MB or BMW.

I think most peopel know what I mean that most cadillac and GM sales people are not career people vs Lexus, MB or BMW.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
This is partially because of my 18 years at the same Cadillac dealership.
*************************************************

Interesting.

The FIRST thing I always ask a salesmen is how long they have been working there. You can tell a LOT about a dealer from that ONE question.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Maybe I shouldn't use morons so much but I have had this belief about dealers since 1976 when I tried to buy my first Cadillac.

I was 23 and looked 16. I started in Miami TRYING to buy a new '77 which was the first year they downsized.

I was on my way to Houston from Miami. I stopped at EVERY caddy dealer on the way TRYING to buy a new car.

To make a LONG story short.....it took mke all the way to NEW ORLEANS and Ponchtrain Cadillac before a SINGLE dealer took me seriously. They sold me the car loaded with every single option offered. And in those days.....EVERYTHING was an option.

Way too much PRE-JUDGING when you walk into a dealer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
And now we know who the dealers are....lol

Don't be so thin skinned. Maybe something I say has merit.

If you are as dealer and you think MOST dealers treat customers well.....THINK AGAIN!

NOBODY wants to be taken care of by your 90 day wonders. Give me the guy with 18 years and you'll see a pro.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Lastly.....

I know you don't want to hear "Moron"

Fair enough.

But don't let my word have you ignore the FACT that MANY if not MOST people hate car dealers.

I am just giving some reasons.

Like 2 years ago when the t-bird came out.

My wife wanted one and so I told her to call the local Ford dealer and make an appointment for the following morning and we'll go buy one.

11am the next day we went to the dealer.

The salesmen was not there and said he would be in in 20 minutes. I said I don't have the time and I need to order this car.

So they get me another salemen and the receptionist says "This is Fabian's customer can you help them"

I corrected her and told him I am no longer Fabians customer and that HE was now my salesmen.

I proceeded to say I need a yellow tbird for my wife and a blue one for me. He almost hit the floor. AND all the other sales people saw this.

So Fabian lost 2 sales cuz he can't show up on time. True story. You hear about such stuff and wonder if it is true.

Well it's true. Do you have a better word for MORON given my experience?

So fabian became the laughing stock of the delaer cuz EVERYONE knew he blew it!

I have more stories.

Why?

Cuz I have NEVER walked into a dealer without expecting to buy. Whether I did or did not has ALWAYS been soley up to the dealer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I just don't have the time to deal with such an attitude.
************************************************

Guess what????

Most consumers would agree with me.

So why IGNORE the MAJORITY???

See THAT is the problem.

If I were in your shoes I would want to know why folks feel this way so I could fix it and SELL MORE CARS.

I am not the one with anything to gain.....YOU ARE.

Just giving HONEST feedback from a guy that buys a lot of cars.

I won't call you a moron....but you would be foolish to ignore my thoughts because I can give you example after example.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Mercedes dealer vs Cadillac

The #1 difference is APPROACH.

Caddy approaches me like I am buying one car in my lifetime and that is it. They can't see further than that cuz MOST salesmen are there for short terms so there is NEVER any real follow up.

On the otherhand Mercedes has always approached it like you were going to buy cars on a periodic basis for a lifetime and they treat you like that.

The result....Brand loyalty and more sales.

Obviously some caddy dealers employ the better startegy as well. But that is NOT THE STANDARD and it should be.

Even Caddy dealers must be able to see the HUGE variation in how some caddy dealers do business.

Just food for thought guys so please don't get defensive.

It's an observation.
 

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Cadillac Sales Satisfaction

Webfather:
Thank you for understanding my position, just because a few people have had bad experiences with a dealer or a few dealers does not make the common situation in the marketplace.

Below is the 2003 JD. Powers Consumer sales satisfaction results for automotive retail ranking. I dont always agree with what Powers says but this is you! the retail public speaking their mind. I have also included a link to the actual press release.

"Cadillac ranks highest in sales satisfaction in 2003, improving eight index points over 2002. Cadillac performs consistently well across all measures of satisfaction, which include the dealership facility, working with the salesperson, paperwork/financing process, delivery process and vehicle price".



Thank You
Allen Kulbersh
Steve Foley Cadillac XLR
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
MR XLR....

KUDOS!!

That was the right way to address my posts.

I guess a dealer is only as good as the sales person that takes care of you.

It's a pleasure to deal with pros and equally upsetting when dealing with rookies.
 

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:glol

It seems that every consumer has an issue with a salesperson, whether they sell cars, appliances or other things. I think the point he is trying to make is that when we walk in a dealership, first respect that we are there to purchase a vehicle. We are not meat or bait for salespersons to catch and make a fast buck. I commend Steve Foley for selling the XLR at MSRP. The bottom line is those who sell at MSRP are thinking in the long run. Service first, money later. Who knows? People who purchase that XLR may have a daughter or son they want to purchase a CTS for and that is where repeat business will make you a money maker.

I have said many times that there needs to be a stricter system to hold some salespersons accountable for their misguided ethics. Consumers are not the prey and should be treated with the upmost respect. We're not dumb and we know when someone is pulling one over on us. At least I am. The car buying experience is not what it use to be for Cadillac. This is one of the many reasons brands such as Lexus and Mercedes-Benz have been able to move into the territory that Cadillac laid foundation for. Not all of them are bad and there are salesmen that I absolutely adore. Hats off to them! Hades for the others!:mad
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The car buying experience is not what it use to be for Cadillac. This is one of the many reasons brands such as Lexus and Mercedes-Benz have been able to move into the territory that Cadillac laid foundation for. Not all of them are bad and there are salesmen that I absolutely adore. Hats off to them! Hades for the others!
***************************************************

Dealers....are you listening?

We are SHARING our experience.

And we are not talking out of our rear ends because we ARE customers.

Sorry if some think that it is a waste of time.

You will NEVER get such HONEST feedback from auctual customers that have purchased YOUR product.

I would re-read lady_phoenix post MANY times cuz she is DEAD ON!!
 

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Who really cares about a 76 Deville???
I wasn't even old enough to drive then!
I want a professional who knows everything there is to know about the car I'm buying and the selling points vs. the competing models, and Experience does not always mean Professional.

As Cadillac is trying to appeal to a younger demographic with their vehicles, It would be helpful to take a look at the sales
staff as well

I'm of the opinion that any product should be sold for maximum profit, business is business, and higher prices help keep the value of my vehicle up. But anyone spending 76K+ for a vehicle and not shopping the market for the best price...........
might well be considered the moron.
 

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Wow, you must have had a bad experience to be so hostile towards car dealers.
It doesn't matter what you are selling (real estate, cars, or ANYTHING), prices are driven by supply and demand. It's real simple. If houses in my neighborhood are selling for 1.5 million, should I list my comparable house at 1 mil ??? Now that would be the act of a true moron!
And what about the people out there (private parties) that buy hot items (XLRs included) and list them on ebay for way more than they paid? Are these guys morones too?
You're probably one of those people that think car dealers have 20-40% margins at MSRP.
This is free enterprize...as a consumer all you can do is be an educated buyer, negotiate the best deal you can, and either buy it or walk away!
 
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