XLR Top & Trunk Problem! [Archive] - Cadillac XLR Forum: XLR and XLR-V Forums

: XLR Top & Trunk Problem!


tonypro99
02-01-2011, 08:22 PM
Hey all;

I got a problem with my XLR the top & trunk seem to be acting up. I will describe it in detail here.

1) The trunk opens no problem when the cargo divider is in place but if the cargo divider is not in place for example if I got a few more groceries, the rear cover behind the seats goes up and trunk does not open.

2) I then have to use the key and open the trunk manually then place the cargo divider into place and press the convertible button to cycle back into a closed state.

3) Now I cannot even run the convertible top to fold into the truck as it puts the windows down but the trunk fails to lift up (meanwhile the trunk will open no problem when I press the button on the fob or by my knee) and the top acts up wanting to fold into the trunk but obviously can't.

4) I had the latest software update applied to my XLR just 10 days ago and it seemed to fix the issue but at last it didn't and as such I have the following problems. Now my XLR is a 2008 so if that can be any reference for you guys. I also did remove all the carpeting inside the vehicle as it was SOAKED and even MOLD was growing on them!

Your help people would be extremely appreciated! Thank-you!

XLR I FL
02-01-2011, 09:29 PM
I would suggest that you take the car back to the dealership and encourage them to resync the top and recheck the sensors that I hope were upgraded to the new ones as part of the software upgrade.

Also the sensors in the package tray "tower" in the trunk are suspect.

Please remember that the windows need to be synced correctly for everything to start working properly. Since it's an easy process I would do this before the trip to the dealer to see if any if the issues you mention were resolved.

CC, one of the most knowledgeable members will weigh in with more information as he sees fit.

Regarding the trunk leak, there is a bulletin out that has some shims and sealent involved that may at least stop the leak.

A mixture of baking soda and water and a scrub brush should remove the mold and smell.

I hope your issues are resolved quickly so you can enjoy yor XLR again.

Please post how these issues come out.

Regards

Jerry

tonypro99
02-01-2011, 10:01 PM
I would suggest that you take the car back to the dealership and encourage them to resync the top and recheck the sensors that I hope were upgraded to the new ones as part of the software upgrade.

Also the sensors in the package tray "tower" in the trunk are suspect.

Please remember that the windows need to be synced correctly for everything to start working properly. Since it's an easy process I would do this before the trip to the dealer to see if any if the issues you mention were resolved.

Jerry

XLR 1 FL they upgraded the software but did not upgrade the sensors and by sensors I am presuming there is new hardware used???

Where are these sensors in the package tray "tower" that you mention exactly a reference would be super!

I did re-index the windows but that did not solve anything at all.

ccclarke
02-01-2011, 10:07 PM
Besides the rear decklid seals leaking being an obvious problem, there may be a connection with your folding top issue.

If the trunk carpets were so soaked they had time to generate mold, this begs the question: have you inspected the left/rear compartment in your trunk where the Folding Top Control module is located? If the drain is plugged and the water level high enough, the module or its connectors could be affected. (That could be bad.)

The cargo divider switch should only affect operation when the folding top control switch is depressed and the FTC checks to ensure the divider switch is closed. During normal rear decklid operation, its state (closed or open) doesn't matter, which is why it raises when the fob or dash switch are depressed (you didn't say if it would raise when the rear switch is depressed, but it should.) You may have more than one issue, but I'd start with the obvious: moisture intrusion. Give the trunk a thorough visual inspection and write back. And Jerry is right-- let the dealer figure it out if nothing is obvious to you.

As for the carpet, I had the same issue when I bought my car and brought it home. (It had been sitting outside on the lot for a year.) I rolled the carpet up loosely and placed it as far forward as it would go, then put a small space heater (on low) in the thrunk with the rear decklid raised and a tarp placed over the rear of the car. After two days, everything was bone-dry. I got the trunk sealed properly (there's a TSB out for this) and have never had another leak.

CC :seeya

tonypro99
02-01-2011, 10:17 PM
Besides the rear decklid seals leaking being an obvious problem, there may be a connection with your folding top issue.

If the trunk carpets were so soaked they had time to generate mold, this begs the question: have you inspected the left/rear compartment in your trunk where the Folding Top Control module is located? If the drain is plugged and the water level high enough, the module or its connectors could be affected. (That could be bad.)

The cargo divider switch should only affect operation when the folding top control switch is depressed and the FTC checks to ensure the divider switch is closed. During normal rear decklid operation, its state (closed or open) doesn't matter, which is why it raises when the fob or dash switch are depressed (you didn't say if it would raise when the rear switch is depressed, but it should.) You may have more than one issue, but I'd start with the obvious: moisture intrusion. Give the trunk a thorough visual inspection and write back. And Jerry is right-- let the dealer figure it out if nothing is obvious to you.

As for the carpet, I had the same issue when I bought my car and brought it home. (It had been sitting outside on the lot for a year.) I rolled the carpet up loosely and placed it as far forward as it would go, then put a small space heater (on low) in the thrunk with the rear decklid raised and a tarp placed over the rear of the car. After two days, everything was bone-dry. I got the trunk sealed properly (there's a TSB out for this) and have never had another leak.

CC :seeya

The compartment where the FTC is located is bone dry since I always inspect that area just in case! The rear deck-lid does raise with the 3 methods however. I do however know there is a moisture issue and I do have to get that TSB done to fix that however I would like to see what XLR 1 says about my questions as I have never had the sensors changed??

ccclarke
02-02-2011, 12:18 AM
Good to hear the compartment is dry. :yesnod There are five switches and three sensors. The luggage barrier switch is located in the driver's side tower. You can see it from the back. I would expect it to give you a message stating the "Luggage Barrier Needs to Be in Place" or something like that if the switch were indicating open when the cycle starts.

If any the switches become loose, they won't give the correct start and stop limit positions (which the FTC stores in memory to compare expected with actual positions) and the folding top sequence will be aborted.

Knowing what is working and at what point in the sequence is failing is key to diagnosing top issues. If the easy stuff (valet switch, window indexing, luggage barrier switch) are set up than it becomes more of a sensor/switch issue.

If the folding top switch is depressed and the windows lower, the next step is for the front tonneau to raise before the next Big Event: The rear decklid opening. If that (rear decklid opening) doesn't happen, it can be several things: Out of tolerance position sensor on the front tonneau, the header latch limit switch is out of position, the decklid ajar status is incorrect or the rear decklid isn't being seen as open. The sensors are the main culprits with the folding top, followed by switches. Obviously, the programming must be current as well, which you had done. The dealer's Tech 2 diagnostic tool not only re-programs the FTC module but can tell the positions of the switches and sensors at any given sequence of the movement cycle. A tech armed with one can diagnose a folding top problem in about five minutes. Without one, it's a little tougher. The front tonneau position sensor is located between the seats, mounted to the forward wall of the trunk. Since you have an older XLR, you probably have the fabric cover obscuring it, but it's easy to disconnect to see if the sensor is loose. The job is a lot easier to do if you fit in the trunk easily!

CC :seeya

XLR I FL
02-02-2011, 09:18 AM
The job is a lot easier to do if you fit in the trunk easily!

CC

Just remember to have your FOB and a beer with you just in case..

tonypro99
02-02-2011, 12:33 PM
XLR 1 FL could you please answer my question I asked?? Thank-you!

XLR I FL
02-02-2011, 02:19 PM
OK, by reindexing the windows we can start with the issues you have.

FIRST: It is very important for you to know that CC knows far more than I do about most every component of the XLR and especially the electronics. In fact he is who I rely on for information and problem resolution.

SECOND: You may or may not be familiar with a TECH II. CC is and can diagnose problems with his own TECH II.

THIRD: CC has pointed out where and how many sensors may be involved in your problem.

FORTH: To be sure no sensors were replaced, please refer to you service invoice when your top was aligned. These components may be identifed in the parts breakdown as switches. If any were replaced it is highly unlikely that old versions were used.

Senors/Switch Locations--I do not have a service manual with pictures that I can send you. Sorry. BUT I would recommend youbstudy your invoice and return to the dealer to have them fix the issue. What they have done is under warranty. so you should not have to pay for the visit. As you know I am sure if you are not comfortable then get clairification from the Service Manager before you let them have it.

As CC pointed out, if you make an appointment a good tecnician should have the top working in under an hour i/e while you wait.

We're here to help with what little knowledge and experience we have so please let us know if we can do more.

Best wishes

Jerry

xlrlist01
02-02-2011, 02:38 PM
Hey all;

I got a problem with my XLR the top & trunk seem to be acting up. I will describe it in detail here.



You are running the engine aren't you? Do not attempt to fold (or close) the top on battery power.

You mention that the deck lid fails to go up. There are two causes of this:

1/ The FTC module detects a problem and stops the sequence (you should get an error warning on the display straight away)

2/ The deck lid is stuck down because the latch has failed to release. You should get a warning as before, but it will take longer before it is displayed.

If 2/, then you will hear the pump straining to lift the deck lid and the 'wings' will sort of swell upwards. When this has happened to me, it has been caused by low battery voltage (and poor design by Cadillac), hence always run the engine for roof operations. (This latter problem can also occur if opening the deck lid on its own and indicates possible battery problems.)

HTHs

tonypro99
02-02-2011, 04:05 PM
You are running the engine aren't you? Do not attempt to fold (or close) the top on battery power.

You mention that the deck lid fails to go up. There are two causes of this:

1/ The FTC module detects a problem and stops the sequence (you should get an error warning on the display straight away)

2/ The deck lid is stuck down because the latch has failed to release. You should get a warning as before, but it will take longer before it is displayed.

If 2/, then you will hear the pump straining to lift the deck lid and the 'wings' will sort of swell upwards. When this has happened to me, it has been caused by low battery voltage (and poor design by Cadillac), hence always run the engine for roof operations. (This latter problem can also occur if opening the deck lid on its own and indicates possible battery problems.)

HTHs

Well I always run the car when operating the Folding Top but I put a multimeter on the battery while the engine was running and I was getting 14.45 Volts? I assume this is plenty enough but when the engine was off I was getting 12.2 Volts. Let me know what you think?

tonypro99
02-02-2011, 04:16 PM
You are running the engine aren't you? Do not attempt to fold (or close) the top on battery power.

If 2/, then you will hear the pump straining to lift the deck lid and the 'wings' will sort of swell upwards. When this has happened to me, it has been caused by low battery voltage (and poor design by Cadillac), hence always run the engine for roof operations. (This latter problem can also occur if opening the deck lid on its own and indicates possible battery problems.)

HTHs

I do hear the pump working and something "Unlatch" but thats about all and the Decklid does not go up. Could this be related to the problem you indicated?

XLR I FL
02-02-2011, 06:23 PM
I do hear the pump working and something "Unlatch" but thats about all and the Decklid does not go up. Could this be related to the problem you indicated?
Tony:

There is also the issue of the top pump and the hydrolic fluid level. If the fluid is lowor obstructed (crimped hose) many of these issues can occur. That's why I recommended you let the dealer finish the diagnostics and determine the root cause.

i just don't want you to have to pay more of your money to resolve the issue.

xlrlist01
02-03-2011, 01:53 PM
I do hear the pump working and something "Unlatch" but thats about all and the Decklid does not go up. Could this be related to the problem you indicated?

There will be no mistake about identifying the pump running and the deck lid failing to lift, and there is one cause, the latch did not release quickly enough. You will see the lid trying (but failing) to lift. You might hear the unlatch sound, but if it is delayed the release mechanism will have jammed.

The design of the latch release is really very poor, the release occurs at the same instant as the deck lid starts to lift, so if for any reason it is slow then the likely effect is to jam the deck lid. The latch looks the same as earlier GM designs which use a lead screw and a motor to turn it, pulling the latch open. It happens quickly but not instantly, and I have found that with a low voltage, it happens too slowly to be released before the deck lid is pulling up strongly. Once the lid is lifting strongly, it jams the latch so it can't release (even though the latch motor is working fine). If you were to use the key in the bumper at that point, the deck lid will lift freely, because you can release the catch with the key.

If you press the 'trunk open' button on the remote at this point, it stops the pump.

If this is the cause of your problems, then for me the root cause was a poor battery.

If you have the headlights on when you switch the ignition off, how long does the odometer display for? (This assumes you have programmed the headlights to stay on after you switch the ignition off). The odometer should display for a good few seconds (around 15), but if your XLR is detecting battery problems the odometer will not display, flash briefly or go off very quickly.

If the odometer displays normally, then it doesn't prove you have a good battery, but it is a pointer that things are OK.

You didn't say if this problem arises with the N* running.

HTHs

ccclarke
02-03-2011, 02:36 PM
This doesn't sound like a cinch latch release issue, since the rear decklid raises when he presses the fob, dash, or rear release switch. Obviously, the mechanism operates properly.

If I read the symptoms right, his problem starts when he presses the top control switch and the rear decklid doesn't raise. That's part of the folding top sequence. That points to a sensor issue. I would start by checking the front tonneau status with a Tech 2 first, and work from there.

CC :cheers

BoughtTheXLR
02-03-2011, 04:15 PM
In your original post you said:
1) The trunk opens no problem when the cargo divider is in place but if the cargo divider is not in place for example if I got a few more groceries, the rear cover behind the seats goes up and trunk does not open.

The rear cover should only be going up when you are trying to put the top down, so it sounds to me like you were trying to put the top down with the cargo divider out of place. (Since the cover behind the seats does not move when opening and closing the trunk).

If that is the case, there may be an issue with the cargo cover switch, which is the left-hand support for the cargo divider. The way things are supposed to work is that if you try to put the top down without the cargo cover in place, the ONLY thing that should happen is an error message on the DIC.

We have already had one discussion here where it was found that the top worked without the cover in place, and then stopped working completely. This sounds suspiciously similar. In that case, the problem was the cargo cover switch had been jumpered closed (allowing the top to always go down) and then it broke, stopping everything.

tonypro99
02-03-2011, 04:49 PM
In your original post you said:
1) The trunk opens no problem when the cargo divider is in place but if the cargo divider is not in place for example if I got a few more groceries, the rear cover behind the seats goes up and trunk does not open.

The rear cover should only be going up when you are trying to put the top down, so it sounds to me like you were trying to put the top down with the cargo divider out of place. (Since the cover behind the seats does not move when opening and closing the trunk).

If that is the case, there may be an issue with the cargo cover switch, which is the left-hand support for the cargo divider. The way things are supposed to work is that if you try to put the top down without the cargo cover in place, the ONLY thing that should happen is an error message on the DIC.

We have already had one discussion here where it was found that the top worked without the cover in place, and then stopped working completely. This sounds suspiciously similar. In that case, the problem was the cargo cover switch had been jumpered closed (allowing the top to always go down) and then it broke, stopping everything.

No the folding top will not go down or even start the process if I do not have the Cargo Divider in place. What I am referring to is if i do not have the cargo divider in place since I need some extra trunk space the front tonneau cover behind the seats pops open like it wants to do a folding top operation and then a message will be displayed on the DIC "Close Cargo Divider" in which case I will have open the trunk manually since if I press any of the buttons nothing will work and place the cargo divider into place and then press the folding top button so it closes the front tonneau cover and I guess the computer thinks the top is closed now.

xlrlist01
02-06-2011, 04:38 PM
This doesn't sound like a cinch latch release issue, since the rear decklid raises when he presses the fob, dash, or rear release switch. Obviously, the mechanism operates properly.

If I read the symptoms right, his problem starts when he presses the top control switch and the rear decklid doesn't raise. That's part of the folding top sequence. That points to a sensor issue. I would start by checking the front tonneau status with a Tech 2 first, and work from there.

CC :cheers

Yes, that was part of what I was thinking. However, when it is part of the top sequence, the battery is under greater load, having already started various parts of the sequence.

More though, is I would like clarity on both that point (it is, after all, a very quick check to disclose a useful piece of information), and whether or not the engine is running. If it isn't this, then fair enough.

From my own experience, I have had the trunk lid work fine on the fob etc., but suffered a hangup when opening the top. This was caused by the battery, even with the engine running (though at idle). (A second new battery fixed it.)

The latch release design is very poor. I did lubricate the latch mechanism too. I think we have discussed this before? On my XLR, the trunk lid starts to rise while the latch is releasing, which takes about 0.5s. I do have the latest software updates. A useful software update would be to delay the pump by about 0.25s to give the latch more time to release fully.

xlrlist01
02-06-2011, 05:10 PM
No the folding top will not go down or even start the process if I do not have the Cargo Divider in place. What I am referring to is if i do not have the cargo divider in place since I need some extra trunk space the front tonneau cover behind the seats pops open like it wants to do a folding top operation and then a message will be displayed on the DIC "Close Cargo Divider" in which case I will have open the trunk manually since if I press any of the buttons nothing will work and place the cargo divider into place and then press the folding top button so it closes the front tonneau cover and I guess the computer thinks the top is closed now.

When you say 'nothing will work', is the pump running? It is very important to distinguish between the FTC module stopping the procedure (probably because a sensor is out of place and/or the divider is out of place) and a problem that is preventing the trunk (or deck) lid from opening.

I assume that what you try to do next is open the trunk (in order to re-position the divider, which sounds like it is loose or the sensor is loose/defective.) If the divider is put of place, it should not be possible to do any top operations at all. You will (should) get a message in the DIC.

It will be obvious if the deck lid is trying to open and is stuck, though from inside the car I guess that the tonneau cover will make seeing that in the mirror more difficult. When you step outside, and try to open the trunk using the fob button, what happens?

tonypro99
02-08-2011, 12:30 AM
Turns out it was the battery problem as I mentioned it was 12.1 Volts and the water level was low so I filled it up and gave it a charge and soon as I put it back in the XLR and ran the car the top worked no problem! Seems like these cars are battery prone as mentioned before. Thank-you all for all the help!!! :jester

XLR I FL
02-08-2011, 12:45 PM
Turns out it was the battery problem as I mentioned it was 12.1 Volts and the water level was low so I filled it up and gave it a charge and soon as I put it back in the XLR and ran the car the top worked no problem! Seems like these cars are battery prone as mentioned before. Thank-you all for all the help!!! :jester


I'm very pleased you got it resolved!!

Are you going to install a Battery Tender??

Regards

Jerry

Onalaska
02-09-2011, 06:21 PM
It's always a good idea to operate the top with the engine running. That puts quite a load on the battery. Opening and closing the trunk though shouldn't run the pump long enough to cause a problem with the engine off unless you have a weak battery.

xlrlist01
02-10-2011, 04:24 PM
Turns out it was the battery problem as I mentioned it was 12.1 Volts and the water level was low so I filled it up and gave it a charge and soon as I put it back in the XLR and ran the car the top worked no problem! Seems like these cars are battery prone as mentioned before. Thank-you all for all the help!!! :jester

A modern sealed battery that is at 12.1v is likely ruined (heavily sulphated) with today's technology. I'm not sure with an unsealed one, I think they might be more robust. However, the downside is that they have lesser capacity (in the same volume).

Certainly from my experience voltages below 12.5v lead to all sorts of weird problems. I found that memory settings kept getting lost, but eventually realised that the memory settings were fine, it was just that some were from one fob and some were from the other. I.e. my XLR was loading memory settings OK, but not all from the same set!

For me the first replacement battery was also defective and the second one fixed all problems. I keep the battery on a tender type charger in recognition that these cars really care about battery condition.

Glad it is fixed for you.

tonypro99
03-14-2011, 12:28 AM
Seems like the problem is back @#*($&~~~!!!!

I installed a new battery and even charged it up and its still acting up on me!

When I press the top down button the windows will go down and the front tonneau cover will open up but the trunk won't unlatch and raise...However if I open the trunk with the fob or any other button it will work no problem?

Now if I open the trunk with the fob and press the top down button while the trunk is open the front tonneau will open up but then the trunk will close along with the front tonneau cover.

Any help would be appreciated but I will have a video for tomorrow...

tonypro99
03-15-2011, 02:13 PM
SOrry no video yet but any insight would be awesome guys...

xlrlist01
03-15-2011, 06:58 PM
SOrry no video yet but any insight would be awesome guys...

You are fast heading to Tech-2 time. The folding roof mechanism seems to be pretty good once it has been set up right, but that can cost a fair bit. The sensors can have trouble and need replacing, the adjustments (done with the Tech-2 mostly) also need to be right.

I would still keep battery problems in mind, it seems like you have a non OEM style battery fitted; I have had problems with a re-charged battery and the engine running still suffering a roof hang up. As readers of this forum must be bored of reading by now, fitting the right OEM battery fixed my folding roof problems and cleared up other odd behaviors. XLRs are sensitive to having a good battery fitted.