XLR Top & Trunk Problem! - Cadillac XLR Forum: XLR and XLR-V Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-01-2011, 08:22 PM Thread Starter
XLR Pit Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Newport, CA
Posts: 185
XLR Top & Trunk Problem!

Hey all;

I got a problem with my XLR the top & trunk seem to be acting up. I will describe it in detail here.

1) The trunk opens no problem when the cargo divider is in place but if the cargo divider is not in place for example if I got a few more groceries, the rear cover behind the seats goes up and trunk does not open.

2) I then have to use the key and open the trunk manually then place the cargo divider into place and press the convertible button to cycle back into a closed state.

3) Now I cannot even run the convertible top to fold into the truck as it puts the windows down but the trunk fails to lift up (meanwhile the trunk will open no problem when I press the button on the fob or by my knee) and the top acts up wanting to fold into the trunk but obviously can't.

4) I had the latest software update applied to my XLR just 10 days ago and it seemed to fix the issue but at last it didn't and as such I have the following problems. Now my XLR is a 2008 so if that can be any reference for you guys. I also did remove all the carpeting inside the vehicle as it was SOAKED and even MOLD was growing on them!

Your help people would be extremely appreciated! Thank-you!
tonypro99 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-01-2011, 09:29 PM
Administrator
 
XLR I FL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
Posts: 1,948
I would suggest that you take the car back to the dealership and encourage them to resync the top and recheck the sensors that I hope were upgraded to the new ones as part of the software upgrade.

Also the sensors in the package tray "tower" in the trunk are suspect.

Please remember that the windows need to be synced correctly for everything to start working properly. Since it's an easy process I would do this before the trip to the dealer to see if any if the issues you mention were resolved.

CC, one of the most knowledgeable members will weigh in with more information as he sees fit.

Regarding the trunk leak, there is a bulletin out that has some shims and sealent involved that may at least stop the leak.

A mixture of baking soda and water and a scrub brush should remove the mold and smell.

I hope your issues are resolved quickly so you can enjoy yor XLR again.

Please post how these issues come out.

Regards

Jerry
XLR I FL is offline  
post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-01-2011, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
XLR Pit Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Newport, CA
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by XLR I FL View Post
I would suggest that you take the car back to the dealership and encourage them to resync the top and recheck the sensors that I hope were upgraded to the new ones as part of the software upgrade.

Also the sensors in the package tray "tower" in the trunk are suspect.

Please remember that the windows need to be synced correctly for everything to start working properly. Since it's an easy process I would do this before the trip to the dealer to see if any if the issues you mention were resolved.

Jerry
XLR 1 FL they upgraded the software but did not upgrade the sensors and by sensors I am presuming there is new hardware used???

Where are these sensors in the package tray "tower" that you mention exactly a reference would be super!

I did re-index the windows but that did not solve anything at all.
tonypro99 is offline  
post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-01-2011, 10:07 PM
Administrator
 
ccclarke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New England '13 XTS Platinum
Posts: 1,034
Besides the rear decklid seals leaking being an obvious problem, there may be a connection with your folding top issue.

If the trunk carpets were so soaked they had time to generate mold, this begs the question: have you inspected the left/rear compartment in your trunk where the Folding Top Control module is located? If the drain is plugged and the water level high enough, the module or its connectors could be affected. (That could be bad.)

The cargo divider switch should only affect operation when the folding top control switch is depressed and the FTC checks to ensure the divider switch is closed. During normal rear decklid operation, its state (closed or open) doesn't matter, which is why it raises when the fob or dash switch are depressed (you didn't say if it would raise when the rear switch is depressed, but it should.) You may have more than one issue, but I'd start with the obvious: moisture intrusion. Give the trunk a thorough visual inspection and write back. And Jerry is right-- let the dealer figure it out if nothing is obvious to you.

As for the carpet, I had the same issue when I bought my car and brought it home. (It had been sitting outside on the lot for a year.) I rolled the carpet up loosely and placed it as far forward as it would go, then put a small space heater (on low) in the thrunk with the rear decklid raised and a tarp placed over the rear of the car. After two days, everything was bone-dry. I got the trunk sealed properly (there's a TSB out for this) and have never had another leak.

CC

Last edited by ccclarke; 02-01-2011 at 10:09 PM.
ccclarke is offline  
post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-01-2011, 10:17 PM Thread Starter
XLR Pit Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Newport, CA
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccclarke View Post
Besides the rear decklid seals leaking being an obvious problem, there may be a connection with your folding top issue.

If the trunk carpets were so soaked they had time to generate mold, this begs the question: have you inspected the left/rear compartment in your trunk where the Folding Top Control module is located? If the drain is plugged and the water level high enough, the module or its connectors could be affected. (That could be bad.)

The cargo divider switch should only affect operation when the folding top control switch is depressed and the FTC checks to ensure the divider switch is closed. During normal rear decklid operation, its state (closed or open) doesn't matter, which is why it raises when the fob or dash switch are depressed (you didn't say if it would raise when the rear switch is depressed, but it should.) You may have more than one issue, but I'd start with the obvious: moisture intrusion. Give the trunk a thorough visual inspection and write back. And Jerry is right-- let the dealer figure it out if nothing is obvious to you.

As for the carpet, I had the same issue when I bought my car and brought it home. (It had been sitting outside on the lot for a year.) I rolled the carpet up loosely and placed it as far forward as it would go, then put a small space heater (on low) in the thrunk with the rear decklid raised and a tarp placed over the rear of the car. After two days, everything was bone-dry. I got the trunk sealed properly (there's a TSB out for this) and have never had another leak.

CC
The compartment where the FTC is located is bone dry since I always inspect that area just in case! The rear deck-lid does raise with the 3 methods however. I do however know there is a moisture issue and I do have to get that TSB done to fix that however I would like to see what XLR 1 says about my questions as I have never had the sensors changed??
tonypro99 is offline  
post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-02-2011, 12:18 AM
Administrator
 
ccclarke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New England '13 XTS Platinum
Posts: 1,034
Good to hear the compartment is dry. There are five switches and three sensors. The luggage barrier switch is located in the driver's side tower. You can see it from the back. I would expect it to give you a message stating the "Luggage Barrier Needs to Be in Place" or something like that if the switch were indicating open when the cycle starts.

If any the switches become loose, they won't give the correct start and stop limit positions (which the FTC stores in memory to compare expected with actual positions) and the folding top sequence will be aborted
.

Knowing what is working and at what point in the sequence is failing is key to diagnosing top issues. If the easy stuff (valet switch, window indexing, luggage barrier switch) are set up than it becomes more of a sensor/switch issue.

If the folding top switch is depressed and the windows lower, the next step is for the front tonneau to raise before the next Big Event: The rear decklid opening. If that (rear decklid opening) doesn't happen, it can be several things: Out of tolerance position sensor on the front tonneau, the header latch limit switch is out of position, the decklid ajar status is incorrect or the rear decklid isn't being seen as open. The sensors are the main culprits with the folding top, followed by switches. Obviously, the programming must be current as well, which you had done. The dealer's Tech 2 diagnostic tool not only re-programs the FTC module but can tell the positions of the switches and sensors at any given sequence of the movement cycle. A tech armed with one can diagnose a folding top problem in about five minutes. Without one, it's a little tougher. The front tonneau position sensor is located between the seats, mounted to the forward wall of the trunk. Since you have an older XLR, you probably have the fabric cover obscuring it, but it's easy to disconnect to see if the sensor is loose. The job is a lot easier to do if you fit in the trunk easily!

CC
ccclarke is offline  
post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-02-2011, 09:18 AM
Administrator
 
XLR I FL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
Posts: 1,948
The job is a lot easier to do if you fit in the trunk easily!

CC


Just remember to have your FOB and a beer with you just in case..
XLR I FL is offline  
post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-02-2011, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
XLR Pit Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Newport, CA
Posts: 185
XLR 1 FL could you please answer my question I asked?? Thank-you!
tonypro99 is offline  
post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-02-2011, 02:19 PM
Administrator
 
XLR I FL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
Posts: 1,948
OK, by reindexing the windows we can start with the issues you have.

FIRST: It is very important for you to know that CC knows far more than I do about most every component of the XLR and especially the electronics. In fact he is who I rely on for information and problem resolution.

SECOND: You may or may not be familiar with a TECH II. CC is and can diagnose problems with his own TECH II.

THIRD: CC has pointed out where and how many sensors may be involved in your problem.

FORTH: To be sure no sensors were replaced, please refer to you service invoice when your top was aligned. These components may be identifed in the parts breakdown as switches. If any were replaced it is highly unlikely that old versions were used.

Senors/Switch Locations--I do not have a service manual with pictures that I can send you. Sorry. BUT I would recommend youbstudy your invoice and return to the dealer to have them fix the issue. What they have done is under warranty. so you should not have to pay for the visit. As you know I am sure if you are not comfortable then get clairification from the Service Manager before you let them have it.

As CC pointed out, if you make an appointment a good tecnician should have the top working in under an hour i/e while you wait.

We're here to help with what little knowledge and experience we have so please let us know if we can do more.

Best wishes

Jerry
XLR I FL is offline  
post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-02-2011, 02:38 PM
XLR Pit Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonypro99 View Post
Hey all;

I got a problem with my XLR the top & trunk seem to be acting up. I will describe it in detail here.
You are running the engine aren't you? Do not attempt to fold (or close) the top on battery power.

You mention that the deck lid fails to go up. There are two causes of this:

1/ The FTC module detects a problem and stops the sequence (you should get an error warning on the display straight away)

2/ The deck lid is stuck down because the latch has failed to release. You should get a warning as before, but it will take longer before it is displayed.

If 2/, then you will hear the pump straining to lift the deck lid and the 'wings' will sort of swell upwards. When this has happened to me, it has been caused by low battery voltage (and poor design by Cadillac), hence always run the engine for roof operations. (This latter problem can also occur if opening the deck lid on its own and indicates possible battery problems.)

HTHs

Last edited by xlrlist01; 02-02-2011 at 02:40 PM.
xlrlist01 is offline  
post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-02-2011, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
XLR Pit Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Newport, CA
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by xlrlist01 View Post
You are running the engine aren't you? Do not attempt to fold (or close) the top on battery power.

You mention that the deck lid fails to go up. There are two causes of this:

1/ The FTC module detects a problem and stops the sequence (you should get an error warning on the display straight away)

2/ The deck lid is stuck down because the latch has failed to release. You should get a warning as before, but it will take longer before it is displayed.

If 2/, then you will hear the pump straining to lift the deck lid and the 'wings' will sort of swell upwards. When this has happened to me, it has been caused by low battery voltage (and poor design by Cadillac), hence always run the engine for roof operations. (This latter problem can also occur if opening the deck lid on its own and indicates possible battery problems.)

HTHs
Well I always run the car when operating the Folding Top but I put a multimeter on the battery while the engine was running and I was getting 14.45 Volts? I assume this is plenty enough but when the engine was off I was getting 12.2 Volts. Let me know what you think?
tonypro99 is offline  
post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-02-2011, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
XLR Pit Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Newport, CA
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by xlrlist01 View Post
You are running the engine aren't you? Do not attempt to fold (or close) the top on battery power.

If 2/, then you will hear the pump straining to lift the deck lid and the 'wings' will sort of swell upwards. When this has happened to me, it has been caused by low battery voltage (and poor design by Cadillac), hence always run the engine for roof operations. (This latter problem can also occur if opening the deck lid on its own and indicates possible battery problems.)

HTHs
I do hear the pump working and something "Unlatch" but thats about all and the Decklid does not go up. Could this be related to the problem you indicated?
tonypro99 is offline  
post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-02-2011, 06:23 PM
Administrator
 
XLR I FL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
Posts: 1,948
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonypro99 View Post
I do hear the pump working and something "Unlatch" but thats about all and the Decklid does not go up. Could this be related to the problem you indicated?
Tony:

There is also the issue of the top pump and the hydrolic fluid level. If the fluid is lowor obstructed (crimped hose) many of these issues can occur. That's why I recommended you let the dealer finish the diagnostics and determine the root cause.

i just don't want you to have to pay more of your money to resolve the issue.
XLR I FL is offline  
post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-03-2011, 01:53 PM
XLR Pit Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonypro99 View Post
I do hear the pump working and something "Unlatch" but thats about all and the Decklid does not go up. Could this be related to the problem you indicated?
There will be no mistake about identifying the pump running and the deck lid failing to lift, and there is one cause, the latch did not release quickly enough. You will see the lid trying (but failing) to lift. You might hear the unlatch sound, but if it is delayed the release mechanism will have jammed.

The design of the latch release is really very poor, the release occurs at the same instant as the deck lid starts to lift, so if for any reason it is slow then the likely effect is to jam the deck lid. The latch looks the same as earlier GM designs which use a lead screw and a motor to turn it, pulling the latch open. It happens quickly but not instantly, and I have found that with a low voltage, it happens too slowly to be released before the deck lid is pulling up strongly. Once the lid is lifting strongly, it jams the latch so it can't release (even though the latch motor is working fine). If you were to use the key in the bumper at that point, the deck lid will lift freely, because you can release the catch with the key.

If you press the 'trunk open' button on the remote at this point, it stops the pump.

If this is the cause of your problems, then for me the root cause was a poor battery.

If you have the headlights on when you switch the ignition off, how long does the odometer display for? (This assumes you have programmed the headlights to stay on after you switch the ignition off). The odometer should display for a good few seconds (around 15), but if your XLR is detecting battery problems the odometer will not display, flash briefly or go off very quickly.

If the odometer displays normally, then it doesn't prove you have a good battery, but it is a pointer that things are OK.

You didn't say if this problem arises with the N* running.

HTHs

Last edited by xlrlist01; 02-03-2011 at 01:56 PM.
xlrlist01 is offline  
post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-03-2011, 02:36 PM
Administrator
 
ccclarke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New England '13 XTS Platinum
Posts: 1,034
This doesn't sound like a cinch latch release issue, since the rear decklid raises when he presses the fob, dash, or rear release switch. Obviously, the mechanism operates properly.

If I read the symptoms right, his problem starts when he presses the top control switch and the rear decklid doesn't raise. That's part of the folding top sequence. That points to a sensor issue. I would start by checking the front tonneau status with a Tech 2 first, and work from there.

CC
ccclarke is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply
Gear in this thread - Powered by O'Reilly Auto Parts

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Cadillac XLR Forum: XLR and XLR-V Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome